2nd Gen (BG) Transmission Question

[ubermich]

I know you guys aren't 2nd gen, but so far this has been by FAR the best resource for transmission information I have found.

After reading through this thread: http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=43281
I feel like "I know kung fu." Especially compared to the lack of answers found elsewhere.

So it may be a shot in the dark, and if there are no further answers here then I am sorry for wasting your time, BUT:

What are the actual differences between the TZ1A2ZJEBA and 2000+ Outback/Legacy/Forester Phase 2 transmissions like the TZ1A3ZC2AA?

The TZ1A2ZJEBA was only used in 99 Outbacks, so it is significantly more expensive, and I'm hoping the Forester transmissions are maybe a little more stout? Both are phase 2 behind EJ25s. Both are 4.44. The only question left for me is are the electronics compatible with my Outback TCU?

Edit: For further info on my specific question: http://www.subaruoutback.org/forums/111 ... ility.html

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

The transmission numbers really don't tell you much other than whether it's FWD/AWD, MT/AT, engine type it was mated to, and year. The link below gives you decoding information for the first gen Legacies, but you can use it to similarly look at the 2nd gen Legacies and Forester transmissions. It really doesn't tell you much.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... decode.jpg

My assumption that the difference in the later model year transmissions is that the electronics may have gotten updated. I don't have any concrete info, but if I were you I'd probably try out the newer model 4eat from a legacy or forester. Do you know if the TCU plugs are the same between your 99 outback and the later models? If they are then you can also swap the TCU's if needed.

[mike-tracy]

I don't have any concrete info for you either, but I know that my 99 SUS auto had a unique ECU and TCU compared to the 98s. I tried running a 98 ej25d 4eat ECU and the dash lit up like a christmas tree with error lights.

Problem I had was the replacement 99 outback tranny and engine would be in limp mode with no check engine lights. Original tranny was replaced by previous owner, and the car worked perfectly for the first 6-months of my ownership. The car would run fine for a while, but would hit some trigger where the tranny would start to shift hard (It shifted like butter until the trigger) and the engine would dump fuel and have not enough power to move the car forward. Engine could be completely warmed up, or started from cold and the error would happen. I never figured out the problem, but I put that engine into a 98 Forester and it has been perfect ever since.

Based on that experience, I would never buy another 99 (or other "one year special") subaru again.

Might be one of those things you have to try installing yourself - an 00-03/04? 4eat, cause I really haven't heard of anyone doing that into a 99.

ps... that tranny/engine error caused me to be hit hard from the rear - I was 2 blocks from home when it happened right at a stop sign. It was my turn to go when the car stalled. A drunk guy driving about 35mph in a full size dodge swerved at the last moment in between me and a parked car, but made a 6 foot gash in the passenger side of my car.

My car was stalled for 30 seconds at the sign before the hit, so I had plenty of time to make my right hand turn and be out of the (uninsured and blind-drunk) guy's way, if it were not for the tranny...

[ubermich]

Welcome to the BBS.

The transmission numbers really don't tell you much other than whether it's FWD/AWD, MT/AT, engine type it was mated to, and year. The link below gives you decoding information for the first gen Legacies, but you can use it to similarly look at the 2nd gen Legacies and Forester transmissions. It really doesn't tell you much.

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... decode.jpg

My assumption that the difference in the later model year transmissions is that the electronics may have gotten updated. I don't have any concrete info, but if I were you I'd probably try out the newer model 4eat from a legacy or forester. Do you know if the TCU plugs are the same between your 99 outback and the later models? If they are then you can also swap the TCU's if needed.

Thank you! According to the link, it looks like if both are "TZ1A*Z****" and the connectors are the same then life should be good... hopefully... maybe.

I do not yet know if the connectors are the same. I'm planning on doing a LOT of documentation on this. I am still in denial though - I can't believe I can't find a record of someone successfully swapping another trans into a '99...

I don't have any concrete info for you either, but I know that my 99 SUS auto had a unique ECU and TCU compared to the 98s. I tried running a 98 ej25d 4eat ECU and the dash lit up like a christmas tree with error lights.

Problem I had was the replacement 99 outback tranny and engine would be in limp mode with no check engine lights. Original tranny was replaced by previous owner, and the car worked perfectly for the first 6-months of my ownership. The car would run fine for a while, but would hit some trigger where the tranny would start to shift hard (It shifted like butter until the trigger) and the engine would dump fuel and have not enough power to move the car forward. Engine could be completely warmed up, or started from cold and the error would happen. I never figured out the problem, but I put that engine into a 98 Forester and it has been perfect ever since.

If you dropped a '98 trans into a '99 doesn't that mean you put a Phase I trans in a car that used to have a Phase II trans? Does the TCU really output to the ECU to command extra fuel??

Based on that experience, I would never buy another 99 (or other "one year special") subaru again.

Might be one of those things you have to try installing yourself - an 00-03/04? 4eat, cause I really haven't heard of anyone doing that into a 99.

ps... that tranny/engine error caused me to be hit hard from the rear - I was 2 blocks from home when it happened right at a stop sign. It was my turn to go when the car stalled. A drunk guy driving about 35mph in a full size dodge swerved at the last moment in between me and a parked car, but made a 6 foot gash in the passenger side of my car.

My car was stalled for 30 seconds at the sign before the hit, so I had plenty of time to make my right hand turn and be out of the (uninsured and blind-drunk) guy's way, if it were not for the tranny...

It may not make you feel any better... but what if you weren't in the way and the drunk went on to hit some poor kid in a Ford Escort? One of the reasons I chose the Subaru is because our local FD recently used a scrapped Baja for "Jaws of Life" practice. The Baja was so solid it impressed me into buying the Outback. I haven't felt as safe in a car since my last Saab. I'd rather get hit in my Subaru than watch someone else get hit in most other cars. (Obviously it would have been best if someone at the bar had knocked the fool out and stole his keys, but there aren't many people left willing to do the right thing in a tough situation I'm afraid.)

[mike-tracy]

The car was on it's 2nd transmission when I got it, the code indicated it was from a 99 outback. I was trying a 98 ECU I had lying around to see if the 99 ecu was bad. But that didn't work, as mentioned.

I knew when the problem was about to start, because the tranny would no-longer go into overdrive. Seconds or minutes later, the engine would lose power, and just dump fuel. When you floored it you could actually see a fuel mist out of the tailpipe! Never a check engine light. My buddy and I datalogged it and the o2 sensor was in the normal range till the "trigger" happened. Then the engine would start dumping fuel and as expected the sensor voltage would max out. Nothing else was out of the ordinary, as far as we could log on the OBD computer.

Either way, that engine is running happily in a 98 Forester, and it sounds like the problem you are having is different from mine. I do empathize with how frustrating this all is, and wish I had the answer for you.

[ubermich]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure this one is the original transmission for the car. It seems like the trans was abused by a previous owner (tow hitch installed but no aftermarket trans cooler). All of my concerns actually look like they could have been avoided with the TransGo kit and an external cooler. All of my symptoms are listed in the thread linked above from this site. I just doubt I got to the car in time to just do the shift kit and make everything better