My EJ22 NA swap thread (it's done, I think)

[skid542]

So I finally got myself a 'new' used EJ22 NA today, thanks all for the help in trying to find one too. So this will be my swap story/troubles/questions thread so I don't fill the bbs with a bunch of threads.

The engine looks to be in fairly decent shape, miles unknown but estimated between 100k-130k and it's unknown what year it is. I got it from a local used parts place. They say they will warrenty the engine against excessive oil leakage, knock, cracks in the heads/block, etc. The engine had been pulled from a car that got hit in the front right (passenger side). It came complete with intake, injectors, alternator, AC compressor but missing the power steering pump. The oil pan though looks like it has a dent in it but I'm not sure if it's a dent or just a different style. The PS pump bracket is also broken, pressumably in the crash? Though the intake and all shows no signs of exterior damage. Right now it's sitting in the back of my van (family's I guess) and I didn't get to look at it too long before I had to get going.

My plan -

This week I'll get out to the house and clean off the old engine real good and then start taking things off the top of it, alternator, AC compressor. I'll pull off the intake as well since I'm planning on swapping my current intake manifold onto the new engine to try to alleviate any wiring issues. Once I have it cleaned and stripped down I'll address the oil pan issue. My dad doesn't think I need to mess with any seals but everyone (he also doesn't really think my engine needs replaced...???) has told me to replace the main crank seals while the engine is out, so I think I will do that too. After all of that, I should then be ready come Friday to clean my engine real good and start labeling lines and wires and then start disconnecting them. By friday night I hope to have everything ready to actually pull the engine. That I'll do Sat. and then swap my intake, the broken PS pump bracket, and possibly oil pan. I don't forsee that taking all day so by Sat. night I'm planning on having the engine back in the car and starting to hook things back up. Sunday I plan to finish up the swap and get back on the road.

I've got Doug's engine pull tips thread bookmarked and I'll continue reading up on anything I can find until the weekend. Until then I'm going to leave this thread open to any opinions/advice/suggestions you all have to make .

Oh, I do plan on taking lots of pics so hopefully I can create a good full NA swap thread for others in the future.

[ballitch]

all you really need to do is swap the engine harness, you will have to take the intake off regardless, might want to do water and oil pump seals, i know wou will have to re-align the timing marks, and you should probably get a new timing belt while your at it. you can ditch the evap. emmiss. canister if you want. just plug the fuel line.



~Josh~

[evolutionmovement]

I'd do the head gaskets, rings, water pump, and T-belt too. You'll have a nearly brand new engine then and it's all easy when it's out.

Steve

[skid542]

First off, pictures.

Pictures are now http://www.thawa.net/gallery/EJ22ESwap


Steve - I'll agree that doing the headgaskets, rings, water pump, and timing belt is the best route. Unfortunately it's simply not an option due to time and money constraints . I did however put a new belt on my current engine about two weeks ago so I'll put it on the new engine.

Now though, here's where I start to feel like a cheap bastard, I've got like 40-50 dollars to spend on assorted seals and gaskets. I know I need to swap oil pans. The car that the new engine was in was in an accident and hit and something must have whacked the oil pan, it's not bad, but needs changed. So that's one gasket. The front doesn't look like it's leaking oil but I've been told by everyone that I should do those, cams and crank correct? I haven't broken the intake manifold loose yet since I'm pressuming if I do that I'll need to replace those gaskets as well? I figure if the wiring doesn't seem to match after I put it in I can deal with it then, otherwise just leave it alone.

So friday I'll go out and clean up my engine a little and start disconnecting and such as planned.

[douglas vincent]

Oil pan doesnt have a gasket, just goop.

If the rear main seal isnt leaking (and by NOT leaking, this means dry and clean (it will be obvious)), then I wouldnt change it (saves you $8-$15)

[skid542]

Thanks Doug.

Am I correct in assuming that if I break the intake manifold loose the gasket will need replaced?

[douglas vincent]

Sometimes. It depends upon the type of gasket and/or who made it. I have reused some intake manifold gaskets 3 times. Some fail (ROCK brand!!!!) the moment you crank them down.

I also get the copper gasket arosol spray for my head gaskets and exhaust gaskets and spray all the surfaces for an extra point of security.

[skid542]

Two coolant lines and exhaust and then the engine is ready to pull tomorrow. I took the intake off and the gaskets looked fine so that was cool. I picked up a can of the copper spray per your recommendation too. I have the new engine waiting on the timing belt and then switching the oil pans.

Scott I'll get some pictures of the oil pans for you.

So far everything has gone pretty smoothly, I spent about 5 hours on it today but have been switching a few things and taking my time. Tomorrow should go well I anticipate and be up and running. I'll get pictures posted up too soon.

[skid542]

Well she's not back on the road running just yet. I have a few more things to do like the radiator and battery and some misc. screws. I also discovered that my driver's side CV boot has completely ripped and so I'll need to do that. I had the car inspected about two weeks ago so it's had to have happened between now and then. Everything though has gone pretty smoothly, just more time consuming than I had planned, but I'll hit that topic later when I get a more complete write up done. School is going to have me busy as shit early this week so it won't be until mid/late week until I get back out to the house but I'll let you guys know when I've got her back, don't worry .

There's the update and thanks all for the help so far.

[skid542]

Well I got out to the house today, got the radiator put back in, battery, couple misc screws, fluids, double checked things and was ready to hear my car going again. My dad and I start it up and it started up alright.

However, it doesn't sound quite right and is idling around 1250 instead of around 600 like before. My check engine light was also on. So I found my connectors and checked my codes, thanks V for the help previously, little guys are handy and I got codes 31 and 35, TPS and Purge control. So we checked the TPS according to my haneys and got 0.002ohm closed throttle and an open circuit when full open on pins 1 and 2. Across 3 and 4 it showed a steady increase in resitance opening the throttle. So we went inside to my old intake and checked it and got an open circuit when the throttle (I'm pretty sure this was the case, it didn't match the new one though).
There was also a tapping sound we were hearing and I think it's my valves, doesn't really sound too good but is definately coming from the ends of the engine. I'll do some searching and refresh myself on it. But after looking for other causes of the sound with the engine running we figured maybe it was just a matter of the engine not being warm? So for the hell of it I reset the ECU and took the codes again.
This time though I got 31, 24, 35. My haney's manual only refers to a purge control solenoid valve in the error code list, so I'm not really sure what I'm looking for, other than it should have hoses going to it. What I'm thinking though is that my old throttle body used to work just fine so I can just swap it tomorrow and hopefully alleviate the problems. Since I still have a fully functional engine sensor wise I should have any replacement but I don't want to have to mess too much with it if I don't need to.

I've been searching and finding a fair bit but I'm still up for suggestions and such.

I also got the CV boot fixed today. After three stores I finally found a split style one but it turned out to be too small, so more running around and finally ended up with a regular one, which I then split and wire tied in. I know, but for the short time being will suffice, I just really don't want to mess with getting the axle off (can you tell I'm a little time constrained ).

Pictures - http://www.thawa.net/gallery/EJ22ESwap

[skid542]

Update : I have the old throttle body back on the old intake but I ran out of time before I could put the intake back on the engine to see if it takes care of the codes and troubles I was having. While the intake was off I went looking for bad HLA's, found two on the driver's side. Rather than bleeding them and hoping they aren't bad I just pulled two good ones off the old engine and put them in. So the valve train should be in good shape now and hopefully the 'engine' side of things is all done. This evening after class I'll put the old intake back on and see what happens, don't worry, I'll keep you all posted .

[skid542]

ARRRGGHHHH. So the the old intake in conjuction with the old throttle body completely solved the check engine lights and error codes. The bad noise I was hearing yesterday was indeed two HLA's that I had to replace.

Now the motor runs smooth and strong but it won't stay cool and it idles at 1.8k. I replaced both temperature sensors that are on the coolant passage that goes between the block and the intake. My old motor ran just fine, temp wise, so I'm assuming these two sensors are still in good shape but upon starting it up I still get the same symptons. My radiator fans aren't coming on either. The upper radiator hose is hot but the bottom one is cold? I started to replace the thermostat but when the old one from the old engine didn't want to just lift out like my manual said I called it quits for the night.

So that leave me asking you all if you think it's the thermostat too and how the hell do I get it out? Thanks for the help in advance.

[vrg3]

You may have to give the old thermostat a bit of a tug to get it out, but there isn't anything really holding it in there... But I would try to scrounge up the money for a new one.

[skid542]

Okay, thanks Vikash. I'll hit the couch cushions and get a new one then.

[vrg3]

Cool. Part number 21200AA072.

[skid542]

Put a brand new thermostat in and still it idles at 1.8k and my radiator fans still won't kick in. The bottom radiator and top radiator hoses are both hot now and if I run the car with the radiator cap off I can see the water circulating. I've checked fuses and they are all fine.

What am I missing?

[vrg3]

So the engine warms up and starts to overheat, with the fans not kicking in?

And idle speed is incorrectly high?

It kinda sounds like the ECU's seeing a low coolant temperature. I realize you changed the temperature sensor, but it still might be something good to check.

Do you have the means to use my scantool? That's an easy way to see what temperature the ECU is reading. If not, a basic sanity check is to probe the voltage at the ECU's temperature sensor pin while the engine is warmed up... it should be somewhere around three quarters of a volt.

[professor]

if you short the two temp. sensor leads together, that will simulate a very hot engine and the fan should kick on. not sure how it will run (maybe crappy since the resistance should never be that low), but at least you'll know the wires are connected to something

if you unplug the sensor wires, don't connect them, and nothing happens at all (no change in engine running or fans) then probably the sensor is failed open

its better to probe the voltage and sensor resistance but this method is fast and will suss out a shorted or open sensor(or wiring fault) with no instruments and very quickly as well

[skid542]

Okay, I went out and picked up a brand new temp sensor and put it in. Nothing. I can start the motor and unplug and replug the temp sensor and it does nothing to the way the engine is running, it could care less. I'll try to short the two wires and see what happens but since I'm using my old intake and wireharness I'm assuming there isn't any faults within it.

Vikash, man I'd love to be able to use your scan tool but unfortunately no matter what I do I can't get any laptop to work with it. I think it has to do with the fact that my wires on at the ECU have been mucked with. I'll check the pin voltages and I'm also going to short out the sensor leads as prof suggested, worst case I blow a fuse right?

Thanks all greatly for the help and I'll let you all know what I find.

[skid542]

So I just went out, turn the key to the on position and went around to the front to pull off the connector and short it out like prof had mentioned. I pull the connector off and the fans suddenly came on. If I shove the connector back on they slow down and then turn off, pull the connector back off and they come back on. So ... wtf?

If the fans will run then my wiring from the fuses and such to the fan should be okay, now to figure out what the deal is.

Suggestions?

[skid542]

So dad and I traced the coolant temp sensor signal back to the ECU, all that checked out fine. Then we grounded the ECU pin that signals the main fan relay, that all worked and the fan came right on. So if the wiring and sensors before of the ECU and after the ECU work then it means it's the ECU? But what about the high idle.

Looking at the throttle body closer, the top throttle stop screw (one with the spring) was being hit and preventing the throttle from shutting any more. So we loosened the top screw and one rotation and it brought the idle back down to 600-700. The bottom screw was not touched and still isn't limiting the closing of the throttle.

So this 'solved' the idle problem and to keep the fans running a switch put on the main fan relay signal wire from the ECU to ground so that I can manually trigger the relay and turn on my fans.

The engine runs great and doesn't overheat, sits right where it should. Now I know this isn't the 'proper' way to do it and everything is setup as temporary but does anyone see problems with this?

Thanks to all for the help and another thanks to Josh for providing online access to FSM wiring diagrams.

[professor]

I guess it is possible that the output for the fan somehow got burned out of the ECU. If so you can just wire the fan to an ignition-switched 12V source. It will run when you first start up but with a good mechanical thermostat you should be OK


If the ECU input from the temp. sensor is somehow bad, I doubt the car would run well, and your mileage would be crappy.

I would put a meter on the fan output pin and monitor that to see if it changes state at all, when you pull the connector to the sensor on and off

[vrg3]

I don't think the problem can be that the ECU's fan control output is burned out. After all, when the ECU noticed the missing temperature sensor, it kicked the fans on.

I'm really curious about what the ECU's seeing in terms of coolant temperature. Maybe its coolant temperature input is fried.

I forget -- did you try running two new wires to the Select Monitor port from the ECU's Tx and Rx pins?

If the car seems to run okay with the throttle adjustment and manual fan control, I don't see a big problem with running it like that, at least in the short term, as long as you don't let it overheat. You might be better off just wiring the fans to run all the time, though, instead of making them manually activated.

[skid542]

You may be right about the input being the one that is fried. If your scan tool would work I'd be able to figure it out . I just know that I read the same resistance at the ECU input as right at the temp sensor and that my wiring from the ECU to the fans is alright. However, I've yet to have any problems with it overheating, I've ran the motor a little hard a couple times and the temp has raised a little, the same as it used to if I ran it hard, but it the needle has yet to get but a hair above horizontal.

I'm not quite following you with the two new wires to the select monitor port, do you mean with your scan tool?

I thought about making the fans run all the time but then come winter time I'm going to have to wait forever for the motor to warm up. I'm going to panel mount my swith right on the dash in one of my unused switch panels and am also wiring it in with an indicator light so that the light is on when the fans are on. This will give me a good quick visual check to make sure they are on.

However, you say "at least in the short term", is the only potential problem you see with overheating? As in my thottle adjustment shouldn't cause any problems? I do plan on trying a new ECU soon, just need to get funds and find one.

[vrg3]

Yeah, I mean to just run new wires instead of relying on the stock Select Monitor wiring. Connect pin 25 of the DB25 connector to any convenient ground on the car. Connect pin 1 of the DB25 connector to pin 7 of ECU connector B56. Connect pin 13 of the DB25 connector to pin 8 of ECU connector B56.

Running the fans all the time shouldn't make the car take much longer to warm up, as long as the thermostat is doing its job. My radiator fans are on almost all the time anyway, because in the summer I run the A/C all the time and in the winter I run the defroster all the time.

If you really don't want to run them all the time, maybe you should wire in a temperature switch from some car that uses one... My understanding is that most of these little gizmos have pipe threads and close a circuit to ground when their temperature exceeds 200 degrees Fahrenheit.

But, really, running them all the time is no big deal.

Overheating is the primary concern I have because you're relying on the driver to turn the fans on, but if the coolant temperature is indeed being misread you may suffer driveability problems or even starting difficulty because of improper air/fuel ratios. In the winter this is much more of an issue than in the summer.

And if the idle control isn't doing what it's meant to you can also suffer some driveability problems, like weird behavior at throttle tip-in and stuff... That seems to be a much smaller issue though.