Limits of EJ22T sensors; MAP, MAF
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Limits of EJ22T sensors; MAP, MAF
I was wondering on these two things. So I hear that the MAP will be efficient up to 14psi, and the METAL MAF doesn't have that much of a window as the plastic JECS ones.
I plan on putting in a TDO5H-16G and running 14-18psi on WRX or STi TMIC. I'm reading up on the E-Manage Ultimate and also Apexi PowerFC. So...still deciding which to use as EM. Power FC?
What are my limitations with the MAF and MAP....will the PowerFC be able to control the MAP or MAF well enough so they don't max out on readings? Or swap to WRX ones?
I happen to have pulled out a complete EJ22T , ECU/harness from a '91 Legacy Turbo, rear spindles and crossmember from the local UPULL. Good complete swap for under $200!
FuJi
I plan on putting in a TDO5H-16G and running 14-18psi on WRX or STi TMIC. I'm reading up on the E-Manage Ultimate and also Apexi PowerFC. So...still deciding which to use as EM. Power FC?
What are my limitations with the MAF and MAP....will the PowerFC be able to control the MAP or MAF well enough so they don't max out on readings? Or swap to WRX ones?
I happen to have pulled out a complete EJ22T , ECU/harness from a '91 Legacy Turbo, rear spindles and crossmember from the local UPULL. Good complete swap for under $200!
FuJi
MY99 GF4 5spd DIY Modified
welcome fuji!! i like your name as well lol
about your map you need nothing but a vrg3 fcd } http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/fcd/. thank's vrg3
for your stock aluminium turbo legacy maf, you need to take it apart then lookin the maf. you will see a plate with 2 screws, remove it. bye removing it! cfm table increase so much i could just about max it out at 20psi.
about the tuneing if your in canada there is a local tuner that can tune your stock ecu. no need for cutting! or spending huge money byeing any engien managment. place is www.neetronics.com
about your map you need nothing but a vrg3 fcd } http://www.graphics.cornell.edu/~v/fcd/. thank's vrg3
for your stock aluminium turbo legacy maf, you need to take it apart then lookin the maf. you will see a plate with 2 screws, remove it. bye removing it! cfm table increase so much i could just about max it out at 20psi.
about the tuneing if your in canada there is a local tuner that can tune your stock ecu. no need for cutting! or spending huge money byeing any engien managment. place is www.neetronics.com
If you're going to be tuning, you can use the JECS sensor, and just snip the line that identifies it as the incorrect MAF sensor to the ECU.
NICO, regarding removing the plate on the aluminum sensor....I know you guys did this, but without doing some testing to verify the voltage doesn't jump around due to poor flow characteristics, I couldn't recommend anyone else to do this.
The plate was obviously put there for a reason, and by removing it....you could create some issues....
NICO, regarding removing the plate on the aluminum sensor....I know you guys did this, but without doing some testing to verify the voltage doesn't jump around due to poor flow characteristics, I couldn't recommend anyone else to do this.
The plate was obviously put there for a reason, and by removing it....you could create some issues....
Josh
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
surrealmirage.com/subaru
1990 Legacy (AWD, 6MT, & EJ22T Swap)
2020 Outback Limted XT
If you need to get a hold of me please email me rather then pm
josh i was thinking the same thing but i have no problem at all, its been a while now and my car runs perfect. no stalling no hick ups nothing.
1993 Subaru Legacy 44B STi 4Cam 16Valve Turbo Intercooled AWD
EJ22T, STi EJ207 DOHC, Vi-PEC (Spare Autronic) @ 426.20HP / 394.94ft lb @ 00psi
Tuned By: Franz Diebold ( DIEBOLD AUTOSPORT ) @ NVauto
EJ22T, STi EJ207 DOHC, Vi-PEC (Spare Autronic) @ 426.20HP / 394.94ft lb @ 00psi
Tuned By: Franz Diebold ( DIEBOLD AUTOSPORT ) @ NVauto
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If you were going to stick with the stock sensors and their range limitations, seems like EM would be pointless?
Your motivation to get EM is by definition to run the car at an output that exceeds the range of the stock sensors and end-to-end fuel system.
Your motivation to get EM is by definition to run the car at an output that exceeds the range of the stock sensors and end-to-end fuel system.
'00 Impr RS - sold
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
'91 Legacy Turbo 5MT - mothballed
13psi, TurboXS TBE, WRX IC, Hallman MBC, TurboXS FCD, KYB AGX, Phil's STI seat, SPT short shifter, David Carter hood, Zeitronix widebandO2, Kuhmo rally tires, STI IC spray, thanks:gearboxtech.com
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if you are going to be using a 16g at 14-18 PSI, im sure you will already be at the limits of those injectors. im sure you will need some sort of engine management to keep it in check.
if you are going to use the stock injectors, be sure to have a wideband plugged in, and checking to see if you are running lean. also, check on your IDC. you dont want that too high.
if you are going to use the stock injectors, be sure to have a wideband plugged in, and checking to see if you are running lean. also, check on your IDC. you dont want that too high.
00 5MT AWD 2.5 RS - New Project
Thanks for the replies and tips.
I may be picking up a '98 2.5L intake manifold for my DOHC 2.5L heads. I know there's a FEW little things you can mod behind the passenger head for oil fittings and coolant.
How are the sensors on this '98 Manifold different and the same as the 22T intake manifold? I know there are a few sensors that are the same......
What are my injector offerings? STi side feeds fit or no?
Now for EM.....Maybe later down the road I might just go with a Perrin GT35R kit.......but really.....right now, I'm going to find me a TDO5H-16G. The Perfect Power isn't doing too well with our ODBI ECU's.....
The Apexi PowerFC is a standalone....but so it seems that the 22T's wiring is similar to the '94 WRX? I gathered a few findings on that while researching. Also a problem would be the ignition signal.....4 channel/2 channel deal on '94 WRX and EJ22T. Of course someone mentioned about the MSD individual coil pack thingy....which is fine as well to solve the problem.
Are there anyone running the PowerFC at all? I have to get a wideband anyways because it'll do me good. Also EGT helps a lot too beside looking at AFR....
Right now, I have already a EJ22T with my '99 2.2L singleport heads on my Impreza w/o turbo. The OTHER complete motor will be dropped in probably the next 2 months after I figure something out. It'll be dropped in with it's factory stuff, and WRX or STi TMIC running with the stock VF11. My EJ22T in my car right now I'll build up with my DOHC 2.5L heads, then drop that in with 16G turbo and the supporting mods and EM (dunno which one to really choose).
Right now I'm tearing into the wiring of the EJ22T. I'm taking off the cruise, ABS, AC, whiper motor, auto tranny and etc apart from the ECU and its wires. I'll have to splice in a fe to the guage cluster, and maybe switch a wire on the ECU to tell it that it's a manual tranny; I dunno which wire it is yet.....
Progress so far......
Thoughts?
I may be picking up a '98 2.5L intake manifold for my DOHC 2.5L heads. I know there's a FEW little things you can mod behind the passenger head for oil fittings and coolant.
How are the sensors on this '98 Manifold different and the same as the 22T intake manifold? I know there are a few sensors that are the same......
What are my injector offerings? STi side feeds fit or no?
Now for EM.....Maybe later down the road I might just go with a Perrin GT35R kit.......but really.....right now, I'm going to find me a TDO5H-16G. The Perfect Power isn't doing too well with our ODBI ECU's.....
The Apexi PowerFC is a standalone....but so it seems that the 22T's wiring is similar to the '94 WRX? I gathered a few findings on that while researching. Also a problem would be the ignition signal.....4 channel/2 channel deal on '94 WRX and EJ22T. Of course someone mentioned about the MSD individual coil pack thingy....which is fine as well to solve the problem.
Are there anyone running the PowerFC at all? I have to get a wideband anyways because it'll do me good. Also EGT helps a lot too beside looking at AFR....
Right now, I have already a EJ22T with my '99 2.2L singleport heads on my Impreza w/o turbo. The OTHER complete motor will be dropped in probably the next 2 months after I figure something out. It'll be dropped in with it's factory stuff, and WRX or STi TMIC running with the stock VF11. My EJ22T in my car right now I'll build up with my DOHC 2.5L heads, then drop that in with 16G turbo and the supporting mods and EM (dunno which one to really choose).
Right now I'm tearing into the wiring of the EJ22T. I'm taking off the cruise, ABS, AC, whiper motor, auto tranny and etc apart from the ECU and its wires. I'll have to splice in a fe to the guage cluster, and maybe switch a wire on the ECU to tell it that it's a manual tranny; I dunno which wire it is yet.....
Progress so far......
Thoughts?
MY99 GF4 5spd DIY Modified
i dont get everyone on hear, i just told all you guys all you need to do is remove that dame plate in the maf and you can tune fuel up to 20psi. a perfesional tuned my car and siad that we solved this problem.
1993 Subaru Legacy 44B STi 4Cam 16Valve Turbo Intercooled AWD
EJ22T, STi EJ207 DOHC, Vi-PEC (Spare Autronic) @ 426.20HP / 394.94ft lb @ 00psi
Tuned By: Franz Diebold ( DIEBOLD AUTOSPORT ) @ NVauto
EJ22T, STi EJ207 DOHC, Vi-PEC (Spare Autronic) @ 426.20HP / 394.94ft lb @ 00psi
Tuned By: Franz Diebold ( DIEBOLD AUTOSPORT ) @ NVauto
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no the rails don't fit because the EJ25 block is phyiscally wider, meaning the manifold is streched moreProject_Legacy wrote:the ej22t rails dont fit the 2.5L DOHC manifold?? damn thats what i was gonna do too. anyone know if the ej22t injectors fit into 1.8 rails into the 2.5L DOHC manifold??
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
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http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
you mean the metal plate attached to two screws that sits inside the back of the maf? The aluminum, non JECS one, right?
the one that restricts airflow across the maf sensor wires?
See just doing that to a stock ECU, I think you're going to run into overfueling.
A problem will arise where it takes less air to make the MAF read the same signal (say 2 volts at the ECU)
So in theory, the MAF could max out at part throttle, 3000 rpms - which is 5 volts. The ECU in turn opens the injectors to 100%, and the engine dies.
Just a thought.
the one that restricts airflow across the maf sensor wires?
See just doing that to a stock ECU, I think you're going to run into overfueling.
A problem will arise where it takes less air to make the MAF read the same signal (say 2 volts at the ECU)
So in theory, the MAF could max out at part throttle, 3000 rpms - which is 5 volts. The ECU in turn opens the injectors to 100%, and the engine dies.
Just a thought.
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
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so, the 2.5 block is a little wider than a 2.2 or 2.0 block? meaning, i wouldnt be able to use 2.5 manifold on a 2.2 or 2.0 block? that cant be right, because people have throwin 2.5 heads and manifolds onto 2.2's and 2.0's before. it may just be that the heads are what makes it "wider".
the fuel rails for side feeds are on the manifold. i THINK the fuel rails for top feeds are what you are talking about Scuzzy. they are configured differently.
i was told, i would be able to use the 2.5 fuel rails with the ej22t injectors.
the fuel rails for side feeds are on the manifold. i THINK the fuel rails for top feeds are what you are talking about Scuzzy. they are configured differently.
i was told, i would be able to use the 2.5 fuel rails with the ej22t injectors.
00 5MT AWD 2.5 RS - New Project
EJ22 injectors are side feed Turbo and non.Project_Legacy wrote:so, the 2.5 block is a little wider than a 2.2 or 2.0 block? meaning, i wouldnt be able to use 2.5 manifold on a 2.2 or 2.0 block? that cant be right, because people have throwin 2.5 heads and manifolds onto 2.2's and 2.0's before. it may just be that the heads are what makes it "wider".
the fuel rails for side feeds are on the manifold. i THINK the fuel rails for top feeds are what you are talking about Scuzzy. they are configured differently.
i was told, i would be able to use the 2.5 fuel rails with the ej22t injectors.
Yes, the 2.5 block has a longer piston stroke (4mm) and the block must be longer to compensate. This puts the heads out further on the EJ25 block than the EJ22 block - thus the intake manifold from an EJ22T will not bolt up to an EJ25 block/head configuration.
The difference from a 2.0 block and a 2.5 block in stroke is 0.4" - so it's a definite no.
The fuel rails on side feed injectors connect to the injector assembly on the outside of the intake manifold. So EJ22 rails will not connect to EJ25 manifolds. Again it's a length/width issue.
You should be able to put EJ22T injectors in EJ25 fuel rails (I can't confirm if they're side or top feed) - but you can't put EJ22T fuel rails on EJ25 manifolds, or EJ25 manifolds on EJ22 blocks - or vice versa.
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
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http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
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http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
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http://www.outbackmotors.com/fuel_rail_setup.htm
I just pickup a set of this for my build.
Just sharing an option in regards to fuel rails.
But if you were loking into making your own rails, plenty of place where you can buy fuel rail aluminum extrusions.
e.g.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/74734.html
I just pickup a set of this for my build.
Just sharing an option in regards to fuel rails.
But if you were loking into making your own rails, plenty of place where you can buy fuel rail aluminum extrusions.
e.g.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/store/74734.html
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People should quit posting wrong, stupid info if they havent actually done it!
" no the rails don't fit because the EJ25 block is phyiscally wider, meaning the manifold is streched more"
This is how all the good info gets diluted on the internet.
The block is not wider.
The longer stroke 2.5 just has the wrist pin relocated towards the top of the piston.
I've built many hybrid motors (2.5 block /2.2t heads ),
(2.2T block/2.5 heads), 2.2T block /2.5 stroker crank/ 20G heads & manifold) ect...
Please don't confuse people that are trying to get correct info to make there plans on.
This is a great resource let's keep it that way.
" no the rails don't fit because the EJ25 block is phyiscally wider, meaning the manifold is streched more"
This is how all the good info gets diluted on the internet.
The block is not wider.
The longer stroke 2.5 just has the wrist pin relocated towards the top of the piston.
I've built many hybrid motors (2.5 block /2.2t heads ),
(2.2T block/2.5 heads), 2.2T block /2.5 stroker crank/ 20G heads & manifold) ect...
Please don't confuse people that are trying to get correct info to make there plans on.
This is a great resource let's keep it that way.
I'm sorry, I was ALWAYS told that the block is longer because of the increase in stroke.franticfour wrote:People should quit posting wrong, stupid info if they havent actually done it!
" no the rails don't fit because the EJ25 block is phyiscally wider, meaning the manifold is streched more"
This is how all the good info gets diluted on the internet.
The block is not wider.
The longer stroke 2.5 just has the wrist pin relocated towards the top of the piston.
I've built many hybrid motors (2.5 block /2.2t heads ),
(2.2T block/2.5 heads), 2.2T block /2.5 stroker crank/ 20G heads & manifold) ect...
Please don't confuse people that are trying to get correct info to make there plans on.
This is a great resource let's keep it that way.
Perhaps you need to post in 'stuff you need to know' and clear up what exactly works with what.
91 Legacy Wagon, Total Rally Car.
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
#82 M4 TRSCCA Rallycross
http://www.youtube.com/mobilepolice/
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