E85 and 800cc injectors and 19 psi = .........

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 6:13 am

Well I found out how much 800cc injectors and E85 makes….

Not much.

The motor made a max of 288 whp/330ish torque @ 21 psi and ran out of injector @ 6000 rpm.

Turning the boost down to 19 psi was 265 whp with a moderately safe tune. But the MAF was hitting 5 volts with the piggyback adding in voltage up top….

This was done @ PRE on a DynoDynamics dyno. Sorry, neglected to get a dyno sheet. The torqe and power curves were good up until 5000-5500 rpm when I would start to degrade a bit. I was having some missing issues (we were pretty sure it wasnt det), and this could have been old sparkplugs. The AFR line was pretty damn ugly. "Safe" but ugly. The Walbro 255 just wasnt able to pump enough down low 4000-5000 rpm, then the fuel pressure would ramp up some due to the boost level, then the MAF would run out.

Since it may be awhile before I find (if ever) 1200cc sidefeeds, I am switching back to gas, as I have made 100+ more hp with the same setup.

Ah well, I just wanted to see what the injectors and E85 was good for, and now I know.

entirelyturbo · Post by **entirelyturbo** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 5:24 pm

Well, as we've discussed, ethanol only has about 50% of the energy that gasoline does.

Was this on an EJ22, or that EJ257 you've been working on?

Kelly · Post by **Kelly** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 8:37 pm

Ya, that hippie juice sucks Doug. You need to go the other direction, Nitro Methane.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Sat Sep 20, 2008 10:27 pm

On a stock 22T? I would think the compression is too low to take advantage of the higher octane rating of E85. Also, what are you using for engine management? Standalone would prolly be best for the need of adjustability.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:31 am

DerFahrer wrote:Well, as we've discussed, ethanol only has about 50% of the energy that gasoline does.

Was this on an EJ22, or that EJ257 you've been working on?

It's about 75-80% of the energy content of gasoline.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:51 am

06 2.5 RS block.

The next day I pulled the fuel pump and the filter sock was CLOOOOGGGGGGEEEEEDD!

No wonder I had weird AFRs

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 3:59 am

Ethanol will do that.....it'll clean any and all junk out of your tank.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Wed Sep 24, 2008 5:25 am

I doubt it was the E85. I only ran it about a week, if that.

I think the tank was already dirty and I ran 15 gallons of Torco through it!

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 1:27 am

Can you advance your timing at all? With the added cooling you should be able to crank it up a bit.

tmarcel · Post by **tmarcel** » Thu Sep 25, 2008 10:39 pm

douglas vincent wrote: I was having some missing issues (we were pretty sure it wasnt det), and this could have been old sparkplugs. The AFR line was pretty damn ugly. "Safe" but ugly.

You sure that the "safe" AFR was OK? Sounds like you may have been dumping fuel. What was the AFR when the missing was happening? Could also be ignition timing related.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:27 am

douglas vincent wrote:I doubt it was the E85. I only ran it about a week, if that.

I think the tank was already dirty and I ran 15 gallons of Torco through it!

Don't be so sure....ethanol does some nastly shit to metal in a very quick amount of time.

I'm sure the torco didn't help either.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:03 am

Well, after pulling the plugs and regapping them to .028, everything is dandy.

tmarcel · Post by **tmarcel** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:37 pm

douglas vincent wrote:Well, after pulling the plugs and regapping them to .028, everything is dandy.

Do you recall what your AFRs were? Was it mapped by gas AFR or Lamda? Just curious.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:28 pm

Gas AFR.

Was shooting for 11-1 or so. But couldnt get there due to the filter most likely.

tmarcel · Post by **tmarcel** » Fri Sep 26, 2008 11:42 pm

douglas vincent wrote:Gas AFR.

Was shooting for 11-1 or so. But couldnt get there due to the filter most likely.

You'll be a lot better off at 12:1 using gas AFR. That will greatly extend your fuel injectors too. 11:1 is probably just too rich. How does your timing look? Can you post an image of your timing map and/or PM me.

douglas vincent · Post by **douglas vincent** » Sat Sep 27, 2008 3:58 am

Well, thats about what I was getting (11.5 :1) but it was RAGGED.

Timing is whatever the NA ecu was shooting, with about 4-6 degrees pulled.

Its really a moot point at this stage. I obviously had fuel system issues, so all ideas are theorys for now.

tmarcel · Post by **tmarcel** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 1:39 am

douglas vincent wrote:Well, thats about what I was getting (11.5 :1) but it was RAGGED.

Timing is whatever the NA ecu was shooting, with about 4-6 degrees pulled.

Its really a moot point at this stage. I obviously had fuel system issues, so all ideas are theorys for now.

Cool, will you try again on E85? Might as well since you've gone this far. I'm still confused as to what an NA timing curve looks like, well at least under boost on an old school Subie. The newer Subaru ignition mapping runs out pretty quick and doesn't compensate for the additional airflow = LOAD.

Legacy Rally Guy · Post by **Legacy Rally Guy** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:39 am

Very cool, but yeah, you're right, Ethanol just doesn't have the volume : BTU of gasoline... A shame we can't get leaded fuel anymore for race nights..... hehe. lead made it some HIGH octane stuff.

And a big bummer we HAVE to run 10% ethanol in our fuel here in Missouri... Now if I could only get the 93 Octane we used to have WITHOUT Ethanol.

I dont even know if we've an AWD dyno here anymore...

tmarcel · Post by **tmarcel** » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:59 am

Legacy Rally Guy wrote:Very cool, but yeah, you're right, Ethanol just doesn't have the volume : BTU of gasoline... A shame we can't get leaded fuel anymore for race nights..... hehe. lead made it some HIGH octane stuff.

And a big bummer we HAVE to run 10% ethanol in our fuel here in Missouri... Now if I could only get the 93 Octane we used to have WITHOUT Ethanol.

I dont even know if we've an AWD dyno here anymore...

I wouldn't turn your back on ethanol. Hopefully that's not what you took from this thread? The OP had a clogged fuel pump AFAIK, which probably lead to his issues.

Many cars have made great power on e85!!

darkcrave · Post by **darkcrave** » Fri Sep 02, 2011 1:18 am

Hell of old status, but what were the complete mod list when running this?

douglas vincent wrote:Well I found out how much 800cc injectors and E85 makes….

Not much.

The motor made a max of 288 whp/330ish torque @ 21 psi and ran out of injector @ 6000 rpm.

Turning the boost down to 19 psi was 265 whp with a moderately safe tune. But the MAF was hitting 5 volts with the piggyback adding in voltage up top….

This was done @ PRE on a DynoDynamics dyno. Sorry, neglected to get a dyno sheet. The torqe and power curves were good up until 5000-5500 rpm when I would start to degrade a bit. I was having some missing issues (we were pretty sure it wasnt det), and this could have been old sparkplugs. The AFR line was pretty damn ugly. "Safe" but ugly. The Walbro 255 just wasnt able to pump enough down low 4000-5000 rpm, then the fuel pressure would ramp up some due to the boost level, then the MAF would run out.

Since it may be awhile before I find (if ever) 1200cc sidefeeds, I am switching back to gas, as I have made 100+ more hp with the same setup.

Ah well, I just wanted to see what the injectors and E85 was good for, and now I know.

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E85 and 800cc injectors and 19 psi = .........

E85 and 800cc injectors and 19 psi = .........

Re: E85 and 800cc injectors and 19 psi = .........

Re: E85 and 800cc injectors and 19 psi = .........