DSM turbo with welded wastgate - TD05 H 14b

[N1446]

i have the unique opurtunity to grab a TD05 h 14b turbo and and a bov for 80 $$ from a local enthusist

the turbo was used for a eagle tallon with a welded wastegate

- how difficult is it to mach up a gasket and mounting brackt for this turbo for the 22T piping ?

[GeneralDisorder]

- how difficult is it to mach up a gasket and mounting brackt for this turbo for the 22T piping ?

VERY difficult. It's not a matter of gaskets - it's a matter of totally custom exhaust flanges. The Mitsi TD turbo's you want are ones made for Subaru's. Ones made for DSM's have the wrong housing castings.

And that 14b probably isn't much better than a VF11. You would be better off finding a TD04 cast-off from someone's WRX project.

Also with a welded wastegate you would have to do custom exhaust to fit an external wastegate.

More expensive than it's worth. Find a TD05-16G for a Subaru or get a used TD04.

GD

[N1446]

better off finding a TD04 cast-off

at the risk of saying sumthing stupid here goees

is it possible to pick up the dsm turbo and simply mix - match the casting side from the stock turbo i have now ?

or must the cast be specific to the 14b TD05 H ?

[93forestpearl]

The wheel would need to be a match for the housing. Too small of a wheel, and you are wasting a lot of exhaust energy. Too large, and it simply will not fit.

You can find TD04's off a WRX for $100 if you look for a while.

[GeneralDisorder]

is it possible to pick up the dsm turbo and simply mix - match the casting side from the stock turbo i have now ?

No. By "cast-off" I mean a TD04 that someone is getting rid of.

There is nothing useful about that DSM turbo. Look at some pictures of them on ebay or something. They are entirely different and unusable. Plus the 14B isn't really an upgrade to the VF11 you have now. It would be a total waste of effort.

GD

[BXSS]

The 14B is much better than a VF11 or just about any TD04 (the TD04L from the 250HP JDM cars may give it a run for its money - but that is ??).

The 14b has the same exhaust wheel as a 16G, so if you can get a hold of a 16G Subaru exhaust housing it will fit (use the v-band style clamp from either a 14b or 16G to get the cartridge to mate to the e-housing) - I have both of these turbos & have tried this before the turbos will fit into each others e-housings no prob.

Road-Race Engineering sells raw Mitsu flanges which can be used to modify a OEM up-pipe & fab a DP with Mitsu flanges - which is not hard to do.
The flanges are about $20 each you'll need the turbo inlet flange + the e-housing flange.
Not really a big deal to do.

The TD005-14b flows 405CFM @ 1 bar & can be spiked up to 25psi on a 4G63 which will taper down to about 18psi @ redline/fuel cut which is 7600 RPMs on 1st gens.
This is enough turbo to get a HEAVY GVR4 to run mid to high 12's on the 1/4 mile - not bad in my opinion.

I'm a former GVR4 owner so I've been through the entire upgrade process with that car which is very nice but very heavy & still remember some of the fun facts....

[BXSS]

The only (-) about this is the need for an ewg.

BUT

There is a 38mm Turbonetics EWG for sale on RS25 for $100 OBO (& has been there for a few weeks), these have the same flange as the 38mm Tials & are basically interchangeable so you can upgrade in a bolt on fashion to a Tial should you feel the need...
Road-Race Engineering also sells 38mm flanges

SO

For about $240 ($80-Turbo, $80 flanges, $80 EWG) you'll have a EWG TD05 on your car if you can do the welding yourself.

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah - after looking at the compressor map, that actually is a decent sized turbo.

But the extra work in the custom exhaust and external wastegate make it not very attractive. Even at ~$240..... you can get a TD04 or even a TD05 if you shop around for $300 or less that will bolt straight on with only some intake mods.

GD

[93forestpearl]

What it really comes down to is if you are handy with a welder, or if one of your friends are. Otherwise, it is going to cost you a grip to have someone fab this stuff for you.



Then there are the other mods needed to support it. What are you going to control fuel with? The SS ECU is fairly adaptive when it comes to timing. A friend of mine was running a GT3076R very nicely controlling only fuel and boost with the Maf T Pro. Other systems might not respond so well. Intercooler? Injectors? If a manual, how about a clutch? If an auto, you definitely need the TransGo reprogramming kit if you don't want to burn it up.



These cars cannot be infused with bolt-ons and expected to run properly. You don't want to even know what I've done to get a reliable 300whp out of a 22T longblock.

[N1446]

what i m aiming at is 250 - 275 hp
without adding too much excess stuff

larger injectors ,
emanage i m looking into
clutch needs replacing
most likely 2.75" exhaust and new plumbing
and a hidden FMIC like in the 94_ss Canada build

+ all the odds n ends i m reading up on over thie fourm should take me there

There is some real creative shit on here ! much respect
first things first i m getting a donor engine as a backup
then upping the original for the turbo app

any advice is worth more than my time here

i m only in the early stages of research and i m merely collecting parts and information at this point

[N1446]

What it really comes down to is if you are handy with a welder, or if one of your friends are. Otherwise, it is going to cost you a grip to have someone fab this stuff for you.

mhhm the first project i took part in is a b2200 turbo 240sx , and it turned out well

a welder was rented and used to fab a custom manifold and all the goodies for it i learned how to weld pretty quickly
its for sale now ready for paint !

2800$CDN FS if anyones interested Halifax NS Canada

http://www.reality-check.ca/showthread.php?t=58461

as an autocadd student i m looking to use this project as a foundation for the course i m in

figure i gotta make it interesting

[GeneralDisorder]

I think a TD05-16g would be better suited to making the power you want. That 14b is sized for a 2.0 running 12 psi and making 210 crank HP. It's going to have a hard time pushing enough CFM to pull you up to 275 wheel HP (over 300 crank HP) on a 2.2.

Doing all that work then finding out you have to go bigger would suck and it's no more expensive (and less work) to go with a 16g that was built for the Subaru exhaust. You can easily hit 300 HP on the 16g. It flows over 100 CFM more than the 14b and you can hit higher HP with less boost - that means safer and cooler.

GD

[93forestpearl]

It takes quite a bit of airflow capability to make 275whp on a 22T longblock. I made 293whp at 20psi with my GT2871R 56 trim, and that was with delta cams, external wastegate, front mount, and a bunch of other crap. Granted my turbo wasn't even close to maxing out yet.

You might be able to get 275 lb*ft to the wheels with a 16g, but I do not think the restrictive 22T heads are going to let you 275 whp.



A friend of mine made 296whp on a mustang dyno using a 22T shortblock, ported 25D heads, and an Evo 3 16g.

[BXSS]

The 16G does flow at least 25% more CFM than a 14B, but you are paying for that - a GOOD used Subaru 16G will cost between $300-350 ($700ish new) vs $80-100 for a good 14b.

Again the 14b can get a GVR4 into the 12's on the 4g63 motor (6bolt - 1st gen), but Dan does have a good point re. the tiny port heads of the ej22t....

[GeneralDisorder]

Yeah - you probably will want different heads to make that kind of power *easily*.

Proper tuning can do wonders though and forced induction makes a lot of port flow issues a bit less significant. And the more CFM you can flow at low pressure the better (to a point )

I'm not knocking any of the builds around here, but without knowing more about their setups I can't say if they were properly tuned or not.

Look at it from this perspective - the WRX 2.0 makes ~240 on a smaller turbo and less displacement. For sure the 2.2's heads are poor flowing but they are designed for a larger engine.... the differences are there, but they aren't a deal breaker. There's plenty of 2.0's making 300 on stock heads. The 22T can do it as well if it's tuned right. The heads get a bad wrap, and a lot of it is because they are SOHC - they look smaller.

At any rate a small shot of NOS would fix the problem

GD

[BXSS]

If you think the ej22t ports are as big as a WRX or even a phaseII SOHC just get a hold of the intake manifold gaskets for these motors.

You'll see the ej22t/phaseI sohc ports are tiny compared to the WRX / Phase II sohc ports which are about 1.5xbigger than the PI ports.

Forced induction can usually heLp Bad port jobs where the ports are on the big side & velocity suffers, but tiny ports are tiny ports & will be the bottleneck of the set-up.

[93forestpearl]

It is true that you are only going to flow as well as your most restrictive point. With a VF11, that is your most restrictive thing in the system. Once you have all your bases covered with a nicely done intake, intercooling, and exhaust systems, the heads are the next thing that are holding you back. Yes you can make nice power with 22T heads. Is it going to be easy? No. It takes a lot of boost to push air through a straw, granted your turbo is happy with those kinds of pressure ratios. Mine is perfectly happy in the 3 atmosphere range, but a 16g isn't so lucky.

There are other factors too, but volumetric efficiency is a major factor in getting the airflow you desire.