Starter Grinding After Clutch/Flywheel Replacement

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:11 pm

My daily driver is a 98 Chevy Metro and I just replaced the clutch with an Exedy Clutch kit and the Flywheel with a Luk Flywheel. Both Brand new.

I started it up after everything was back together with new synchromesh in my tranny and an oil change for the engine and new coolant. It cranked for a couple seconds and then made a grinding noise and started right up. I thought maybe that was just for the first time but it did it 3 times after that when I started it up.

It's just like if you hold the key for too long when you're starting the car and it spins the starter too fast. It stops as soon as I let off the key. But I'm not holding it in too long. I'm releasing it the moment the engine starts.

The starter is bolted in tight so I'm stumped. What would cause this problem? I torqued the flywheel down to spec and the clutch.

The only thing I can think of is maybe the flywheel I installed is different. Maybe the teeth aren't in the same place, exaclty? Please don't tell me I have to take the tranny out again. That wasn't fun.

The flywheel was from Autozone and it was a Luk flywheel.

http://www.lukclutch.com/catalog/detail ... ement=1.0L

Here's the pictures I took of the flywheel before it went in.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:33 pm

It sounds like a teeth engagement problem. Did you compare the flywheels side-by-side before installing the new one? The 'height' of the ring gear on the flywheel to the mounting surface (crankshaft) should be the same, as well as the O.D.
Is there an easy way to inspect the flywheel teeth w/o having to pull the trans? Throgh the starter hole, maybe?

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sat Jan 31, 2009 7:46 pm

unfortunately the only way to know for sure is to count the teeth on both flywheels. It sounds to me like the starter gear is too close to the flywheel so its expanding outward to engage and then its being forced into the teeth and then when you let go of the key the spring on your starter should just pull it back out of the flywheel teeth but its not because its jamming in there.
There is usually a tiny bit of play on the starter mounting holes. I would losen the bolts and try and rotate or move the starter gear AWAY from the fylwheel as much as you can. You only may need like millimeter here.
The other thing is take the satarter out and have someone start it a few times and watch the starter and see how fast the gear goes back. it may be so worn that its not returning quick enough. It should snap back really quick.

Hope this helps

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:20 am

Interesting. Good to know I'll check it. I've sent an email to Luk about it as well. I hope it's just somehow a worn starter. I just checked and it would be $208.90 plus probably about $20.89 for shipping for a OEM starter from GMpartsdirect. This is cutting into my savings for my motor rebuild for the subaru. Bummer.

There's a cover that I can take off on the bottom of the engine that allows you to see about 3 inches of the up on the flywheel. I nearly forgot to put it on last night. I will check it there and then remove the starter and have a look.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:04 am

Didn't get around to pulling the starter today but I think it's probably the starter. I looked in my factory service manual and it says that a high pitch noise from the starter upon releasing the key means the starter solenoid is bad or bad solednoid release return spring. Says to replace the solenoid.

If I get a new starter should I buy OEM from GM for about $229 shipped or Duralast from autozone for $90? That Duralast is tempting...

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:38 am

kimokalihi wrote:
If I get a new starter should I buy OEM from GM for about $229 shipped or Duralast from autozone for $90? That Duralast is tempting...

Its up to you. On a starter you'll likely get stranded WHEN the autozone one goes bad in a year if your lucky. Starters arent as easy to replace as an alternator so I'd recomend the new OE if you have the money. If your on a budget then plan on it failing and having to swap it out a bunch of times while its under warranty.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Feb 02, 2009 3:43 am

Yeah I hear that. I better make sure it's faulty first though. I would have done it this morning when I got off work but I was on the phone waiting for the stupid clutch company to help me out for an hour and a half. Then I was too tired to wake up today and do it before work. Now I'm about to leave so maybe tomorrow.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 8:29 am

Another option is a local rebuilder who uses quality parts.

Be sure to check the ring gear teeth while you have it out.

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:12 pm

When I got in my car and started it today I think I remember it was starting to do this a little bit before I replaced the clutch and flywheel but now it's just gotten far worse. So I do think it's the starter and not the flywheel. Luk hasn't responded to my email yet and I'm not wasting any more time on the phone trying to get a hold of them.

I might get up early today and pull the starter. We'll see. I've been getting up pretty late around 5:45 in the afternoon. Been going to the gym after work til like 6 or later in the morning and getting to bed late around 8-9 in the morning. Should be in bed at the latest by 7 this morning.

I'm dead tired and exhausted from not getting enough sleep and last night's workout. Skipped the gym today I was so tired.

Is the ring gear the little gear that pops out of the starter and turns the flywheel?

tahiti350 · Post by **tahiti350** » Tue Feb 03, 2009 3:24 pm

ring gear is the one on the flywheel

magicmike · Post by **magicmike** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 1:42 am

update?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:19 am

OK I got the starter removed and tested it while it was out. Well sort of out. It was still hooked up to the car but it was out of the tranny. Anyways it popped right out real fast and shot back in just as fast and spun fast too.

I then removed it completely from the vehicle and took it apart. Wiped all the greese and dirt buildup from everything and now it's all clean. Didn't use any solvants because the book said not to because it could desolve grease that's packed into the clutch or something. Just used a dry clean towel and went over it real good.

Now I need to lube it up but I don't have the proper lube. I don't think. I have some chevron multipurpose grease that's for wheel bearings and stuff I think.

I'm going to get the right lubricant and then put it back in the car and see if it works.

Do you think that spring that pulls the ring gear back in needs to be replaced? Could that be the reason it's not coming back out quick enough. Only two reasons I can think of is that spring isn't strong enough anymore and it needs to be lubricated and cleaned(done). Anything else?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:21 am

I took a video of the starter ring gear popping out and spinning and pulling back in but it's like 35MB and I have any software to edit it and make it smaller and I'm not sure where to host it.

But it pops out super quick and spins fast and pulls right back in just as quick.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 2:41 am

The ring gear is the one on the flywheel.
Is there any way you can check the teeth on it (the ring gear)? You want to look for any signs of abnormal wear on the teeth. The wear on the starter gear looks normal.
Also, the plastic pivot arm in the starter is troubling, but if it works I suppose its strong enough. Can you pull the starter gear out by hand (when its assembled)? It should have resistence coming out and return quickly when released. But it sound like its working correctly from your 'bench' test.
If thats all okay then it must be the ring gear on the flywheel. I forget, did you compare the two before you instlalled the new one?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:00 am

Someone on the Suzuki Swift/Metro forum that the ring gear was the one on the starter that engages the flywheel teeth.

I looked at the teeth but they looked fine but I didn't get the best look at them.

I can pull it out by hand. I don't remember how much resistance there is.

I'm almost positive it's the teeth on the flywheel.

beatersubi · Post by **beatersubi** » Mon Feb 09, 2009 6:08 pm

Nice job w/ the pics. Some wear is visible in the second one, and it looks like the gears aren't engaging enough, if anything. Its hard to tell, but it looks like the teeth on the ring gear might be the wrong pitch for the starter. While you had the starter apart, did you try meshing the teeth with the starter flywheel gears by hand to see how they line up?

kimokalihi · Post by **kimokalihi** » Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:47 pm

No I didn't see if they mesh right when the starter was out.

I pretty much have it down to where I can time things just right where I release the key just as the engine is about to start up and there is no starter noise. I should be able to do this until I can find time to work on it. I just moved out of my parents house and that's where all my tools are and the garage to work on it in and I don't know when I'll be able to do anything on the car.

Plus I didn't leave on good terms with my mom. I don't even know if she knew I was moving out.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Starter Grinding After Clutch/Flywheel Replacement

Starter Grinding After Clutch/Flywheel Replacement