name that sound .. RESOLVED .. sweeet

[N1446]

i pulled the motor from a 91 ss 5mt in July to install another motor in place of it
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while pulling the original motor from the car ; i did not seperate the engine from the transmission far enough to clear the transmission spline before raising the motor
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while raising the motor this caused the trasmission to rise as well - snagged at the transmission spline that mates to the motor - and it lifted along with the engine
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i backed it down immediately and adjusted the clearance again
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with the new motor in , the clutch works mechanically 100% , though there is a vibrating / bell ringing noise now comming from that area
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how fragile is the transmission spline / bearing there ; could it be that i ve bent / crushed somthing important ?

[Legacy777]

I don't think it should have damaged anything, but it might have. Maybe someone else can comment that has experienced something similar.

[fishbone79]

I doubt you bent anything or damaged any bearings unless you were putting some serious lateral pressure on the mainshaft. Was the transmission jammed against the tunnel while you were tugging up on the motor with it snagged?

I can't think of anything that would make a bell-like noise in that vicinity that has to do with the transmission... Are you sure you're not dealing with a loose/crappy mount? Before I replaced my tranny mount the transmission would vibrate allot and since the exhaust was hitched to it in the center, the pipe would clank against the stationary brace. The vibration was also pretty bad under load. Both of those symptoms do sound a bit like yours. The problem will be amplified if your engine mounts aren't the greatest either.

[N1446]

Was the transmission jammed against the tunnel while you were tugging up on the motor with it snagged?

far as i remember , before i backed off on the hoist i noticed the resistance against the tunnel and eased off for it to fall back into place
- i was uncertain if the bolts in the crossmember were causing the resistance or the transmission as i rased the engine

Are you sure you're not dealing with a loose/crappy mount?

i notice there is a gap between where the transmission would normally rest on the trans-mount ; maybe it has deteriorated or the motor mounts im using are too tall ? , they are not an exact fit as i had to really harp on the engine to get it in place ie\ push at the front to get the bolts to fall into the crossmember - i m using the motor mounts from the '98 GT wagon and there was no issue before the swap

-maybe its best i use the original mounts ?

[fishbone79]

You're already in there, if the mounts are at all suspect, I would replace them with OEM correct for the car... I went with the STI transmission mount because it is much stiffer, and there are stiffer engine mounts that will help as well. The sti mount allows much less drive train movement and I really liked how it stiffened things up. I used OE engine mounts, which are probably a little out of balance with the stiff tranny mount, but I haven't had a problem in 50k (miles).

[n2x4]

Loose flywheel/ pressure plate bolts? Did you torque them all to spec?

IIRC 52ftlb for the flywheel, 12ftlb for the pressure plate.

[N1446]

n2x4 every thing is tourqd down properly , i m now down to four posibilities
1 clutch disk in backwards
2 '91SS trans mount & '98GTmotor mounts incompatible
3 TOB mashed up or installed backward
4 Transmission bearing mashed up ?

[n2x4]

i m now down to four posibilities
1 clutch disk in backwards
2 '91SS trans mount & '98GTmotor mounts incompatible
3 TOB mashed up or installed backward
4 Transmission bearing mashed up ?

1 maybe, but I think the noise would be pretty bad
2 non issue
3 maybe
4 maybe

[N1446]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

N1446 wrote:
i m now down to four posibilities
1 clutch disk in backwards
2 '91SS trans mount & '98GTmotor mounts incompatible
3 TOB mashed up or installed backward
4 Transmission bearing mashed up ?

n2x4 wrote:
1 maybe, but I think the noise would be pretty bad
2 non issue
3 maybe
4 maybe

1 glad you think so as the noise is comming from the bell housing and it Is a horrible sound - ie\ bell-vibrating-shrill
2 hmmm

[fishbone79]

The system should not work with the clutch disc backwards... at least, I don't think. You would not be able to remove it from gear correctly, in that case... I think the inside/center of the clutch disc would hit the inside/center of the flywheel, and torquing the pressure plate down would really mush it in there... no?

My only suggestion about mounts was without any a-priori information about their age and condition.

If your T.O. bearing was incorrectly installed, it would not hitch up to the engagement fork correctly, and could spin around clanking into the fork making a "bell noise..." It would also chew the snot out of your quill, eventually, and make allot of vibration since it is hardly balanced. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong...

[N1446]

in practice you are correct about the clutch disk being a pain to get in there backwards and it was not a pain to install - IF in backwards though i ve read on this fourm its been done without noticing before everything is installed - .. dooing research proves it is possible to do


i ve not been driving the car since the install so if the TOB is the culprit it should not have caused much damage

i m removing the motor in the next week and i ll have pics of everything , i m really looking to see what i need before the motor is pulled

[gijonas]

Pilot or throwout bearing.

[N1446]

i m starting to think throwout bearing now too
the noise is not present when the engine is idle and the clutch is disengaged
engaging the clutch is not a problem , releasing the clutch is not a problem , rolling underpower in first is no problem , shifting into second and engaging the clutch for power is no problem , let off the power and NOW the noise is rediculous .. it starts ringdingn ringding dingn ringnrign ring !! now that its begun , - under power its not so bad and the noise sorta fades off as i accelerate , let off the power and coast and there it is again , chirring and ringing and its super loud , after each gear after dwnshit or upshift and on decel the noise is present - as i disengage the clutch still the noise is present though fading and as i slow to a stop the noise fades off and is not present as the motor is idle and the car is not moving


it really helps hearing from you guys on this cause i m baffeled by this noise for real

im installing an exhaust this weekend so i ll have a better understanding of the sound and its characteristics , i ll get a sound clip while driving too , as this post is worthless without sound

[adema2626]

as i disengage the clutch still the noise is present though fading and as i slow to a stop the noise fades off and is not present as the motor is idle and the car is not moving

im installing an exhaust this weekend so i ll have a better understanding of the sound and its characteristics , i ll try and capture a sound clip while driving too , as this post is worthless without sound

Personally if the sound goes away when you are at idle/not moving I don't think it is the T.O. bearing. Did you replace it when you did this swap?

My throw out bearing makes noise only when its idling, It goes away the second I push the clutch in.

The sound I hear is the sound you hear when you spend a skate board wheel and you hear that whirling sound of bearings spinning. That's just me 2 cents though.

[Lunatech]

One of the times I replaced my transmission I left out the bolt that holds the exhaust to the cross member IIRC. It made a clanging sound, erratic, dinging sound. It didn't last long as I took care of it the same day. That's something to look into.

Otherwise I would think something may be loose; fly wheel, front pulley can make noise on deceleration, I had the hood prop falling into belts before.
I only bring these things up because I know what a pita it is to pull the trans and just because that is the last thing you worked on doesn't always mean that is where the new problem is.

For what it's worth, I wish you success,

[N1446]

The sound I hear is the sound you hear when you spin a skate board wheel and you hear that whirling sound of bearings spinning. That's just me 2 cents though.

i did not replace the TO bearing at the time of the swap
i know that roller-bearing sound very well
this is not that sound , this sound is more metal-bell/like dingle-dingle

One of the times I replaced my transmission I left out the bolt that holds the exhaust to the cross member IIRC. It made a clanging sound, erratic, dinging sound. It didn't last long as I took care of it the same day. That's something to look into.

this is the second time this has been mentioned, i think you and fishbone maybe onto somthing because the car has no headers on it whilst i ve been testing/ driving ,

there is a cat back on it still however and its not draging , so when everything is fastened i ll be able to eliminate this posibility as well

FTR- i have checked into this eariler, and there is no evidence of driveshaft - exhaust contact

quite possibly a different story while driving tho , with the vibrations and everything

[adema2626]

this is the second time this has been mentioned, i think you and fishbone maybe onto somthing because the car has no headers on it whilst i ve been testing/ driving ,

You don't have any headers on??? I sure hope not because there is a problem right there.

But having it only cat back shouldn't make it make that dinging noise. Unless of course your DP is hitting the tranny xmemeber.... You might wanna check the clearances on that because now that I think about it mine did that but it didn't do it when I was on throttle only at idle.

I know there is a bracket that bolts onto the tranny xmember from the DP. Could you possibly might not have bolted that in? Personally I just cut that POS off because it does absolutely nothing but make you have to unbolt one more bolt everytime you take it off.

[N1446]

You don't have any headers on??? I sure hope not because there is a problem right there.

yup this car went from 2.2T to 2.5NA so the headers dont match
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the 2.5NA header just arrived in the mail and whats left of the 2.2T exhaust is whats left on the car , only from the catback

as you may of guessed the car is not on the road yet

[macipusy]

I had a similar noise on my 91 TLeg....at low RMP's it was a bell ringing like sound and mostly when you pressed the clutch in. At higher RPM's it turned more into a squeal but not as loud.

It was the TOB.....when I took it out it rolled fine, but when you pulled on it and rolled it, the friction in the bearing faded.

[fishbone79]

If you only have the cat-back hanging in there, the pipes will definitely slop around and clank into stuff. I can't imagine how loud it must be without headers, can you hear anything?? I wouldn't run it like that very much, it's a good way to burn an exhaust valve...

[N1446]

yeah hearing is limited , you d not be able to hold a conversation inside as the sound is veryy loud , especially under power - it sounds very dry like a tractor exhaust

- it was only necessary that i drive it without pipes when i moved in September , i drove 10 miles to the city under light load with someone following me - since that day i ve not run it again

[N1446]

Well , here it is
the reason behind three months of confusion and doubt - the shifter linkage

i must of pulled it out of the pivot when i caught the transmission



this explains the vibration in the shifter

the shifter linkage is out of its pivot and is marring up the dshaft

sheeeit mang

[adema2626]

Glad you figured out what it was. At least we know its not the pilot bearing

[N1446]

this is how happy I am !



i am so pumped this is now cleared up , i started loosing sleep over it !

i cleaned everything up after fitting the new headers and took the car out for some air

she's now whisper quiet

here s som pics