Legacy got tuned (round 3)

[Legacy777]

Well, this is the third time the Link has been "tuned". The second was decent, but few of the correction factors were setup correctly. Those have all been setup "properly" now.

We did some minor tweaking with the accel enrichment once I got to Houston, but overall it runs good, and I am pretty happy with the power.

On 91 octane it put down:

235.7 HP @ 5000 rpm
264.9 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm

On 93 octane it put down:

242.4 HP @ 5000 rpm
280.2 ft-lbs @ 4000 rpm

Those numbers are wheel horsepower and torque. Stock STi puts down around 250 hp & torque to the wheels on their dyno.

You can see from the plots that the heads really are the limiting factor. But I can't complain too much as the motor is making nearly as much HP, and MORE torque than a DOHC head with much larger ports & valves.

As some of you may have noticed in the engine forum. I've got a thread about some cooling system issues. I think it's a head gasket, but will wait until I test the coolant for hydrocarbons. Surprisingly the engine runs fine. I just don't think the stock head gakset can hold up to 20 psi of boost. Plugs are good, so no real signs of bad detonation. If I have to pull the head gasket I will probably try and get the heads to flow a little more with p&p & cams (I'd be stupid not to...haha )


Ok, onto the plots. (click on the image for a larger image)


This plot shows the pre-tune and post tune on 91 octane



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. the 93 octane tune



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a stock 2002 WRX (note the scale is off on the WRX plot)



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a mod. 2004 WRX (note the torque difference at mid-low rpm)



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a mod. 2005 WRX



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a stock 2006 WRX



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a mod. 2006 WRX w/ Tomei header & up-pipe



This plot shows the 91 octane tune vs. a stock 2006 STi



This plot shows a final report of the pre-tuned 91, post-tuned 91, and post-tuned 93 runs.


All the plots can be found here
http://main.experiencetherave.com/subar ... yno_plots/

[93forestpearl]

The headgasket can hold 28 psi just fine. Have you ever cracked that motor open? Headstuds might help, as I've never ran without them.


The heads are a restriction yes, but your turbo size is the main restriction. I was making over STI power at 14 psi, and 293 whp at 20 psi from the GT2871R 56T. This was with Delta basic ground cams and stock heads.


I'm not sure where you want to go with the car, but a 16G is honestly too small for your capabilities. If you have decent heads with turbo specific cams, then I'd say something like a HTA68. Keep in mind that I would prefer less than 300 whp on a stock 22T short block with the windowed pistons.


Fuji made almost 300 with WRX heads and his home porting and a Evo 3 16G on a stock 22T shortblock, but it is what it is.


Personally I think you are limited by hardware. Having Delta rework your cams should help some, but a 16G is rather small for someone who can control it. Just remember, if your turbo spools up fast, it falls off on the top end. Unless you use a VNT turbo

[kimokalihi]

Just how much can you get a VNT turbo for and what all do you need to make it work? I read about them in maximum boost (book on turbocharger systems) and have wanted one ever since.

[Legacy777]

The headgasket can hold 28 psi just fine. Have you ever cracked that motor open? Headstuds might help, as I've never ran without them.

I rebuilt the motor......but have not had it open since. Granted, I didn't go all out on the motor build.

Honestly....I'm a crossroads. If I really want any more power, it's going to be a lot more money to maintain the power and reliability.

I'd need new heads, or work the heads, cams, turbo, fuel injectors, and possibly ignition (cop)....plus a 6spd or rebuilt 5spd. There's a lot diminishing returns for how much money would need to be spent.

I'm happy with the power it's making now. I'd really just like to have the car running, so I can enjoy it

[kimokalihi]

How come no build thread?

[93forestpearl]

The headgasket can hold 28 psi just fine. Have you ever cracked that motor open? Headstuds might help, as I've never ran without them.

I rebuilt the motor......but have not had it open since. Granted, I didn't go all out on the motor build.

Honestly....I'm a crossroads. If I really want any more power, it's going to be a lot more money to maintain the power and reliability.

I'd need new heads, or work the heads, cams, turbo, fuel injectors, and possibly ignition (cop)....plus a 6spd or rebuilt 5spd. There's a lot diminishing returns for how much money would need to be spent.

I'm happy with the power it's making now. I'd really just like to have the car running, so I can enjoy it

Well, welcome to the Subaru game. There are certain levels that mean leaps in cost.


You could pursue heads and that stuff, but I thinks it's more expensive than a larger turbo. Get you're cams done, retune, and go from there.

[Legacy777]

Well, welcome to the Subaru game. There are certain levels that mean leaps in cost.


You could pursue heads and that stuff, but I thinks it's more expensive than a larger turbo. Get you're cams done, retune, and go from there.

Yeah....I'm well aware of the subaru game...

Like you said....just going to look at cams....maybe p&p and go from there.

[93forestpearl]

Just how much can you get a VNT turbo for and what all do you need to make it work? I read about them in maximum boost (book on turbocharger systems) and have wanted one ever since.

It's been in my thread for a while.

[AWD_addict]

Nice results. The WRX has quite the low range gains from the Tomei header+up-pipe. Does that shop sell those parts?

[Legacy777]

How come no build thread?

Because everything I've done was meant to be on my website, but I've been lazy have not updated it....and a build thread would be pretty much the same....so that's pretty much why no build thread

[Legacy777]

Nice results. The WRX has quite the low range gains from the Tomei header+up-pipe. Does that shop sell those parts?

Thanks

Yeah...I'm assuming they do

[555BCTurbo]

Honestly....I'm a crossroads. If I really want any more power, it's going to be a lot more money to maintain the power and reliability.

That's why I traded mine for the Audi...I have a lot more power potential now...


But damn Josh...those are some great numbers...I bet your Leggy is a lot o' fun!

[Mattheww044]

Very nice! I would certainly be satisfied with those numbers! I can definately see where your coming from when you say you want the reliability and power, especially if its your DD. Once you get much farther into the build than you have it seems like you need a second car for the "just in case" factor, and swapping parts, etc.

Just out of curiousity, what is VNT? Is that a brand, or just a certain type of turbo?

[Legacy777]

Honestly....I'm a crossroads. If I really want any more power, it's going to be a lot more money to maintain the power and reliability.

That's why I traded mine for the Audi...I have a lot more power potential now...


But damn Josh...those are some great numbers...I bet your Leggy is a lot o' fun!

Yeah....like I said, I'm pretty happy with the numbers. The car is definitely fun to drive. I can be happy with those numbers.

[Legacy777]

Very nice! I would certainly be satisfied with those numbers! I can definately see where your coming from when you say you want the reliability and power, especially if its your DD. Once you get much farther into the build than you have it seems like you need a second car for the "just in case" factor, and swapping parts, etc.

Just out of curiousity, what is VNT? Is that a brand, or just a certain type of turbo?

It's not my daily driver....hasn't been since 2004....but still I'd like to maintain a reasonable reliability.


VNT - Variable Nozzle Turbine. There are vanes on the turbine side of the turbo that change the throat area and can change the flow characteristics of the turbine section of the turbo allowing for fast spool up and good flow at high rpm.

[scuzzy]

what does your timing map look like? I'm interested in seeing your numbers.

also, what gap do you use on your spark plugs?

I'm running a max 27* advance on my rally car because I've got no way to check the knock with the Link ECU.

the 27* is around 5000rpm at -0vac, it's 16-18* at 20PSI and 5000rpm

I know there's the thing about people using your maps and whatnot could be dangerous to other idiots, but I'm just curious to see what you're doing

[Legacy777]

I'm running the stock gap. When I pulled them on Saturday, they were around 1.1 mm. I am running an MSD Dis-2 ignition, which does seem to help the ignition system.

As for timing, this map has a max timing of about 40 degrees at very low vacuum. At 5000 rpm and 20 psi timing is about 25 degrees.

I talked with the tuner about timing and fuel. He tends to setup the maps to build boost by increasing vs. dumping lots of fuel in.

He had a set of the headphones and was listening for knock and indicated there was none.

I'm travelling this week, but can try and get you some more info on the timing table when I get some time.

[93forestpearl]

Josh, I think I was a bit riled up from the game and totally misunderstood your original post. I thought you were expecting more out of it.

That is pretty good considering the mods have into the car, especially for a normal 16g. It is a good example of what a standalone and a custom tune will do for a car.

[Legacy777]

Thanks Dan.....yeah I wasn't really expecting anything more than that. I'm happy with the results and need to just drive the car

I may play with some of the extra capabilities the Link can do. There's a lot of possibilities for extra creative stuff.

[gijonas]

That's why I traded mine for the Audi

Cmon now.

BTW when everything on that car stops working for no apparent reason just check the wire loom that goes between the door and body

[farfrumwork]

Very Cool!

I think a stock longblock Legy making that kind of power is really sweet. Be happy and drive it.

I know it's listed elsehwere, but what injectors are you using? STi 550's?

-Chad

[Legacy777]

Yup, the STi 550's

[epicfail]

Have you considered using an aftermarket knock sensor to monitor knock and to tune with?

[Adam West]

I may play with some of the extra capabilities the Link can do. There's a lot of possibilities for extra creative stuff.

Can you say anti-lag baby!!!

Congrats. You have to be very happy with that dyno tune.

So what about a different head design AND cam work? Forgetting now which heads are much higher flowing...ej20k?

[Legacy777]

Have you considered using an aftermarket knock sensor to monitor knock and to tune with?

Link does have the ability to monitor the knock sensor, and I can tune with that. The stock knock sensor doesn't appear to output the best into the Link. I'm working on upgrading to a newer knock sensor which has a better data output.

I will note that the G4 knock detection system doesn't work exactly how it should. It is not closed loop and doesn't pull timing UNLESS the PCLink software is connected. The G3 is closed loop. I have been told that Link is in the process of updating the firmware so the knock detection on the G4 is closed loop and reterds timing without the PCLink software connected.

They originally did this because they wanted people to use their knock block with the G4 ECU.