Noob Requiring EJ22T Wisdom

[CFK]

Hi, Im new to modifying Subies and just purchased a 92 SS T. The car has been very neglected besides a recent tune-up, body & interior is real rough, but drives strong while spitting oil onto the exhaust mani.

Basically this will be my winter/daily driver while im building my 84 Jetta and the wifes using the Audi Avant. I don't plan to go to nuts ( small Budget ), but would like to clean it up visually and mechanically while getting a few more ponies out of the glorious EJ22T.

So after some searching I just want to do a few easier and cheaper mods that I could do while fixing the cam/ VC seals and TB. So finally the real ?

Decent, cheap, easy start ? Prices ?

Turbo: TD04, TD05, VF39 ?

Intercooler: 06-07 WRX. 07 FXT ?

Y-Pipe, WG, BPV, Injectors ? And the last Can I do all this on the factory management or do I need a chip?

I just want to make sure I get ALL the right parts and for a decent price. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers.

Reid.

[Florin1]

for cheap go with td04 ~ $100, 06/07 TMIC ~ $60-$80, ebay y pipe kit ~$70, and t-bolt clamps ~$20, your injectors and ecu are fine.

[wtdash]

Hi,
Welcome to THE site (OK the ONLY site) for '90-94 Legacys. You need to do some more searching.....but let me get you started...see below.

Turbo: TD04, TD05, VF39 ?
Recommend the VF39. Why? Because it's bigger than a TD04, but fits almost exactly the same....but you'll pay $300-400 on NASIOC, etc. vs. $100ish for the TD04. The TD04 is only a slight upgrade from the VF11. HOWEVER, you'll likely need fuel upgrades to run either the TD04 or VF39 over stock boost levels- $100-400

Intercooler: 06-07 WRX. 07 FXT ?
Easy one: WRX- FTW. FXT won't work well w/the throttle lines as the BPV points down and gets in the way.$50-100


Y-Pipe, WG, BPV, Injectors ?
"Y-pipe" for the intercooler? Or did you mean headers or what? I'd recommend an Ebay Down Pipe (DP), too.
WG? Comes w/the turbo (usually), unless you're referring to External WG, which is out of my league;
BPV - stock one is fine for up to 18-20 psi, I believe and our cars don't like BOVs...screws w/the air metering, I believe (MAF-based).
Injectors? Depends on what you want to do... I wouldn't consider injectors part of a 'budget build' but depends on your budget. Anything over 440's will require EM (engine management) $???.

And the last Can I do all this on the factory management or do I need a chip?
There are no chips being made (I'm selling a used one that was avl. last year), but there are many EM options in the form of 'piggy-back' controllers, and there is also a Thread about replacing the factory ECU HERE.


p.s. swapping turbos requires custom plumbing, as the stock Turbo/ Air Intake is....'unique' to the USDM '91-94 Legacy Turbo. If you get a man. boost controller (MBC) you'll be limited to the factory fuel cut of 13psi. There are cheap 'fuel cut defenders' (FCD) options on here, too.

I just want to make sure I get ALL the right parts and for a decent price. Any help would be appreciated. Cheers.

Reid.

[CFK]

Thanks for the quick replies guys.

Well, my VF11 seems to spool and hold boost fine, I just figured if it had 250K Kms on it , might be a little worn. As a TD04 would be much newer and I would think more efficient.

I thought the Y-pipe was just the intercooler piping ( silicone hose ) and was wondering if the one that came attached to the 06-07 one would work or be modified to do so.

As far as the downpipe I thought the existing one worked, guess not.

So Basically I would need the downpipe for the exhaust and the Y-pipe for the intake side ?

[CFK]

Ok, so I just spoke to a guy locally with a cheap TMIC and he suggested forgeting about the TD04 unless I can find a TD05 with a 90 degree outlet on it. Leaving the VF10/11 and just adding the intercooler W/ silicone Y-pipe, adding a manual boost controller and jumping out the overboost sensor or something like that. Call it a day.

For me on a small budget, that sounds great to me. Now I just need to figure out what aftermarket y-pipe works and get a FCD then ?

Is any of this making sense ?

[wtdash]

For me on a small budget, that sounds great to me. Now I just need to figure out what aftermarket y-pipe works and get a FCD then ?

Is any of this making sense ?

Yep..100% agree....but again, I ask, what is this 'y-pipe' you keep referring to?

And if you get an FCD, you REALLY should get a boost gauge AND a wide-band meter, since you're going above stock settings (8.7 psi boost).

GL,
Td

[CFK]

After some more BBS searching I found a few threads on the TD05 & TMIC. The Y-Pipe ( to the TMIC inlet ) is shown in a few of the photos and one even has a parts list.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=38598

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38048



Now due to costs I will just stick with the VF11, but the only difference seems to be more of a 90 on the TD05.

Some more searching and some helpful advice Im sure I will figure it out and get the correct parts ordered so I can get this baby some lovin and get her insured.

And WOW, talk about Stealership , parts are way more expensive than VW's and even the audi !!! $280 for the Cam seals. VC seals, grommets, crank seal and TB. With the VW at least there is kinda a discount VW parts dealer.

Got the TMIC though !!!

[wtdash]

The VF11's compressor-side outlet is 'clocked'; the TD and other VF series are all 'normal' - 90°. The old JDM/EDM TD05 (among others) have the 90° elbow on the INLET side, too.....like the VF11. You won't find any current generation turbos like that. I've purchased 3 old-school TD05's - all from the UK.

You'll have to fab the VF11>>>IC connection, so be prepared.

The best online pricing I've found is @ SubaruGenuineparts.com. Jamie is their online rep....she's into Subies - a rally driver, or used to be.

You can also buy eBay timing belt kits that include the seals for $100....although the EJ22T is non-interference, if you don't know the maintenance history I'd get the kit....make sure it includes a water pump, too.

Warning - Tangent: Rumor has that Audi's have more than their share of issues....is your Avant expensive to maintain? The A3 is on my 'list' of cars I'd like to own.

[gijonas]

Rumor has that Audi's have more than their share of issues

I believe the word "rumor" should be reserved for that which is not completely obvious and routinely proven hundreds of times.

[CFK]

Alright I get it finally, " Clocked ". It's not exactly a 90 or straight out.



So Basically it's searching for an old style TD05 with the " Clocked " outlet if I really didn't wanna mess with moving the F-tube & wires as shown :



Alright, after much searching for the Clocked TD05 obviously they are hard to track down. So I guess that just saves a few steps when piping the TMIC. Forget the WRX Samco Y-pipe and just use silicone 45's & 90's with tubing in-between.

Alright then, Parts Needed :

- Wyntonm BOV/Diverter adaptor
- MBC
- FCD
- A/F & Boost gauges
- Silicone fittings
- silicone hose
- T-bolt clamps

Perfect, Thanks so much !!!

[CFK]

Rumor has that Audi's have more than their share of issues

I believe the word "rumor" should be reserved for that which is not completely obvious and routinely proven hundreds of times.

Im pretty sure that ALL cars each have there fair share of problems, just some in different areas. All my V.A.G. ( Volkswagen auto group ) cars have been very reliable. Drove my 84 Jetta as a daily for 3 years and it only left me stranded 3X because I neglegted to do the basic maintainance. Once a year for a 20+ car is pretty good I think.

My old 90 Legacy was exactly the same, left me stranded the same ratio. Either way lets get one thing straight, just like a Subaru they always end up leaking oil from the engine and water from the sunroof

[Legacy777]

How much boost are you planning to run? Any more than about 13-15, depending on the supporting modifications to improve airflow and you will be maxing out the MAF, which will max out the injectors, etc. The factory did not give these cars much head room for additional power possibilities without having to substantially tweak things.

With that said.....it doesn't mean people don't just up the boost and let it ride....but from an engine mangaement point of view, it's not the correct thing to do. Depending on what you want to do and what you want to spend, you may be leading yourself down a road you don't want to go.

[CFK]

More than 8.7, less than 15 psi

I don't wanna just let it ride, my friend has the handheld wideband thing and I will get a gauge and moniter it.

[wtdash]

Alright I get it finally, " Clocked ". It's not exactly a 90 or straight out.

So Basically it's searching for an old style TD05 with the " Clocked " outlet if I really didn't wanna mess with moving the F-tube & wires as shown :

Alright, after much searching for the Clocked TD05 obviously they are hard to track down. So I guess that just saves a few steps when piping the TMIC. Forget the WRX Samco Y-pipe and just use silicone 45's & 90's with tubing in-between.

Alright then, Parts Needed :

- Wyntonm BOV/Diverter adaptor
- MBC
- FCD
- A/F & Boost gauges
- Silicone fittings
- silicone hose
- T-bolt clamps

Perfect, Thanks so much !!!

You'll not find (on this planet) a clocked TD05 w/the 90 inlet as the compressor side is one molded piece. You CAN clock the newer TD04/5's, from what I've read, but then you'll need a 90° on the compressor's intake, plus some pipe to get into the stock 90° elbow.... Make Sense?

Edit: Check out my Turbo LINK back when I was playing 'musical turbos'.

The VF11 (and VF10 - almost identical turbo from what I've read) was only used on the USDM-spec Legacy, and since it's also (I think) the only one NOT to get an intercooler, it has it's own, unique intake hose from the turbo to the throttle body. This makes fitting an IC a challenge but not impossible....there is a recent post on here of making it work, IIRC.


And as previously stated, a BOV is not recommended.....from what I've read on HERE- this also shows a stock turbo/IC installed.


Td

[CFK]

Yep , gave on the turbo unless this one implodes.

Most people just seem to make the normal outlets work by just re-routing things, but I will just concentrate on fixing the oil leaks and TMIC and forget about it and would also like to avoid using the Samco Y-pipe and have to butcher it up, but there might not be an option besides cutting the stock aluminium 90's, turning them and tig.

I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

And no BOV, just re-route the stock diverter.

[CFK]

I Guess there are no cheap silicone knock-offs for the 07 Y-pipe, just the aluminium ones from hong kong. It's either $ 125 for a Samco or $75 for a 00-06, cut and extend.

Every little detail has to be complicated.

[Florin1]

yup, i went with the ebay y-pipe. Hacked it up. Take a look at siliconeintakes.com that's where i got my t-bolt couplers and 90*

[wtdash]

I Guess there are no cheap silicone knock-offs for the 07 Y-pipe, just the aluminium ones from hong kong. It's either $ 125 for a Samco or $75 for a 00-06, cut and extend.

Every little detail has to be complicated.

I used this EBAY KIT on mine, but it's an '06 WRX IC w/the TD04.

Fits like THIS.


The straight piece in the pic wasn't quite long enough as there is a bend, so I ended up using a 'hump' hose.

Cost less than $50 and probably made overseas but sold from USA.

TD

[CFK]

What I am wondering now is if the length of the all Y with your 2" 90 to the turbo was just right, then if it was to a VF11 it would be to close since I have to use a 2"-1.75" reducer and a 1.75" 45 ?

So then I will just either have to hack off some metal from the Y or buy the silicone one for more and have to hack some off either way.

siiconeintakes.com does sell reducing 45's, but not in that small of a size. So realistically it just sounds easier but not as cost effective to go with the TD04.

[wtdash]

Not sure I follow your ? but, w/the TD04, the 90° from the IC to the turbo had to be cut to fit, but that was the easiest part of the whole dang install.

Remember, the PCV lines - & infamous 'F-tube' - will likely need rerouted (among others) w/a TD04, so plan on even more fun if you go that route....oh, and that 20 year old plastic? It'll 'go murphy' on you right quick!

TD

[CFK]

No doubt. Im just gonna order the same metal Y-pipe, a bunch of random silicone pieces and figure it out as I go then, otherwise here I am constantly on the interwebz when I should be in the garage just working on the damn thing.

On tho the TB & WP, cam, crank/oil pump, & VC seals !!!

[CFK]

Everything is ordered. Ebay Y-pipe, silicone fittings, BPV adaptor & MBC. Just need a cheap boost gauge !!!

The only thing silicone intakes did't have was 1/2", 5/8", & 3/4" silicone tubing and I heard people have had issues with tranny hose, not sure what to do then ?

[Florin1]

Are you referring to the F pipe hoses? If you are, get emissions certified ones. I found mine at Auction Auto parts. Schucks and NAPA didn't carry anything besides 1/2".

They need to handle gas or else the rubber breaks down.

[CFK]

Will Do, I'll check my local parts place. See what they got. Thanks.

And I hope this stuff comes quick, should be done all the seals, TB & WP today ( if all goes well )

Might have a line on a cheap TD05 too !!! Already ordered the proper silicone for the VF11 though, either way I guess I would also have to get a new downpipe, gaskets and etc anyway. aahhh, I can't be stopped.

I went from wanting a $1000 beater to getting a $1200 beater that I wanna modify. Oh well, I guess you guys know how hard it is to find a 5MT alone, besides a mint one.

[93tw5spd]

yeah, pretty well informed posters here. FYI, I have a 93 TW with a vf-8 @ 10 psi, 06 wrx tmic, na 5 spd clutch (cable) etc, and de-catted stock exhaust (made a noticable difference believe it or not), i ran a 16 flat @ 85 on a mild summer day in oregon and the clutch slipped at launch and held from there on kinda. based on the mods ive done, id say skip the td04 and get mybe a vf39 (careful which one) or something along those lines (vf8 cough cough jk) and tmic it and exhaust (full 3 inch not just de-cat like ive done, although better than nothing). Anyways have a good one.

Brant