1994 NA EJ22 Legacy will not start

[MagicBus]

Awesome photos. I know exactly where to look now. Probably won't get to it until the weekend. Still car shopping out of real necessity now. My backup car (the Vanagon) toasted a wheel bearing trying to get to work this morning. Limped it home and took the commuter train.

Looking at another (non-Subaru) car tonight. Subaru would have been my first choice, but the ones in my price range sell too fast or are too needy.

[MagicBus]

Didn't work out with the other car last night (1981 Mercedes 240D with a 300D nonturbo motor swap).

Got home and tried to disconnect coolant temp sensor. Found it but it was dark and too much was in the way. Absolutely could not disconnect it. It was raining, and 9:00 PM, so I didn't feel like taking other stuff apart.

One more thing that I hadn't really picked up on as of yet - the car does crank, and sounds normal. BUT, after a five seconds or so, there's a grinding or binding noise, and I stop cranking, so as to avoid damage. It doesn't sound good.

I wait a minute, and it cranks again fine, for a few seconds again, then the noise. No matter what, if I give it a minute, I get a normal-sounding crank out of the car.

Since I've never had to crank the car longer than a second or two to start it since I've owned it, I assumed this might be normal. But, after giving it some thought... maybe this isn't normal, and maybe it's indicative of a larger mechanical problem. I'm starting to think that maybe, just maybe something DID seize up with respect to timing, and the belt jumped. Won't be able to check it out until this weekend at the earliest.

Currently commuting by unfortunately expensive commuter train. On the bright side, it has free wi-fi, so I can talk to you fine people and browse Craigslist for replacement cars.

[Legacy777]

Any chance you could take a video of the noise?

[MagicBus]

Any chance you could take a video of the noise?

Absolutely, but likely not until the weekend. Will try and remember to do so.

[MagicBus]

Any chance you could take a video of the noise?

Ask, and ye shall receive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKxewDXwojk

Advance apologies for the length of the video. I ramble on a bit explaining my situation before I actually start the car. Includes one start from inside the car and one from ourside, in case that makes a difference in hearing the noise.


EDIT - if you'd like to skip my long-winded intro, skip ahead to 7:35 in the video for the first start attempt, and then again to 8:50 for the second start attempt.

[lindstromjd]

It's your starter grinding on the flywheel. After cranking like that and the engine trying to start, the starter itself can't keep up with the flywheel. It's nothing serious as long as you don't keep doing it to the point of it grinding again.

[MagicBus]

Good to know. Come to think of it, the sound is similar to a sound I had with an intermittent bad starter years back on my Vanagon. Upgraded the starter and the noise never came back.

Worst case scenario, if I fix the car, I did save the starter from my parts car last year.

[lindstromjd]

I still wonder if maybe there isn't a sensor unplugged on accident on your engine though. Do you have a MAP sensor on your engine? I know that that would immediately kill the engine if it ever lost vacuum. And sorry if you've answered this already, but did you try unplugging your MAF?

I just had to go through the same basic stuff with my 91 legacy, and it turned out to be a semi-bad MAF, and a bad fuel pump relay.

[MagicBus]

I did try unplugging the MAF - no change in behavior. Behaved like this with three different crank position sensors (four if you count the one I broke trying to extract it). Wanted to try unplugging the coolant temp sensor a few days ago, but I couldn't budge the connector. I'll have to remove the intake tube and maybe a few other items to do so.

Unsure if I have a MAP sensor or what it would do. Although automotive tech manuals is what I do for a living, I'm not a trained diagnostician. That's why this problem is kicking my behind. I consider myself to be an almost-clever-enough hobbyist who lucked into this job by merit of having been an English major who knew a few things about cars. Engine management is definitely not my strong suit. I suppose if I had more to go on than the Haynes manual diagrams, I might have a better clue to solving this.

But, I'm rambling as usual. Another of my unfortunate personal quirks.

Back to the problem at hand... if the ECU was bad... could it cause the behavior I'm seeing? Or, would the car show no response at all?

[Legacy777]

There is no MAP sensor on the non-turbo cars, so that's not likely the problem. The problem could be the ECU, but I would keep looking at some other possibilities before replacing it.

[MagicBus]

There is no MAP sensor on the non-turbo cars, so that's not likely the problem. The problem could be the ECU, but I would keep looking at some other possibilities before replacing it.

Yeah, I was talking to one of my coworkers at lunch, who IS a trained diagnostician. He advised I check for a jumped timing belt next. If I get some time this weekend, I'll do that.

If it has jumped, I hope that the reason is obvious once I have it apart.

[SubyFusion]

From the video it sounds the same way my car did, when I tried to start the engine that the previous owner destroyed! it almost sounds like its going to start but it never does! That engine had a bad head gasket, but that probable isn't the case just thought it was strange that its doing the same thing.

Brian

[MagicBus]

I leave open the possibility of a headgasket leak. My dad has an '02 Forester which sprung a head gasket leak from the driver's side rear, so I know what to look for... or at least I think I do. It was obvious on that car - leaked visibly out of the seam.

While poking around my engine, I did notice some moisture near the passenger side rear, but by all appearances it was oil. My oil level is right on, as is my coolant level. No hint of milkshake when I open the filler cap.

Let's just assume it IS oil. It seemed to come from the hoses coming off the air intake tube.


Thought question - could an air leak right there be the cause of my problem. As in, if I replace some of those old rubber hoses... is there any chance THAT could fix the no-start? Or, would it run like that, albeit less than perfectly?

Will try to inspect timing this weekend.

[MagicBus]

Update - found a smoking gun.

I checked everything electronic that I could - no change in condition. A co-worker suggested a week or two ago that I check the timing. So, since I finally had the time and weather today, I cracked the timing covers.

Much to my surprise, the timing marks were off. It only took another minute to find that one pulley had almost completely seized. All the rest moved faily smoothly, but not silently.

Looks like my decision to cheap out and not replace the pulleys last summer bit me in the end.


Ordering a timing belt kit. Will fix.


Unfortunately for the Subaru, I did buy a "new" daily driver yesterday morning. Picked up an old 5-speed VW Jetta diesel. My plan, as of now, is to fix the Subaru and then sell it once running. I'll update once the fix is done and the car is good to go.

[mike-tracy]

I just replaced the pullys in my Outback, and holy crap those things are expensive!

I hear you on the TDI, I saw one for around bluebook (they usually go for double bluebook here), but the thing had motor problems - smoking while driving, and absolutely no power off boost, etc, so I didn't go for it. Still want one for a DD and long trip in the summer but I have absolutely no experience with diesels.

[MagicBus]

I just replaced the pullys in my Outback, and holy crap those things are expensive!

I hear you on the TDI, I saw one for around bluebook (they usually go for double bluebook here), but the thing had motor problems - smoking while driving, and absolutely no power off boost, etc, so I didn't go for it. Still want one for a DD and long trip in the summer but I have absolutely no experience with diesels.

I bought a cheap aftermarket kit - new belt and pulleys - just to get the car running and for sale. Total was $125. I toyed with the idea of just replacing the bad pulley, which I could have bought for $35, but I figured I'd be better off doing the job closer to correct.

As for the Jetta, it's actually not a TDI. It's the 1.6L diesel that came immediately before the original 1.9L TDI. Should get 40 MPG + on the highway. The last couple of owners REALLY took care of the mechanicals. Needs nothing in that department. Missing some interior bits, but it's driveable, and runs fantastic. Got it for $1100, so I'm not complaining.

[MagicBus]

Update - Legcay is running. Will post a more detailed update later.

[MagicBus]

Got home from Thanksgiving with the wife's family yesterday. I got my timing belt kit before the trip but didn't have time to install it. Opened it up and checked it out - Koyo idlers and a Gates timing belt.

The old stuff was in pretty bad shape. Here's a shot of the old pulleys:


This one was the offender. You can see where the bearings went bad:


Of course, they were al in pretty poor shape. Even though the "good" ones turned easily, they were not silent. A few shots of the new pulleys installed:









I haven't timed a Subaru since last summer, so it took me a while to line everything up, but I did, got the new idlers and belt on... and it started right up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2vlSF2lkPI

Thanks for the help, everyone. Now, I can put the car up for sale (with a zero mile timing belt).

[mike-tracy]

Glad you got it working but I'm sad it has to go.

[MagicBus]

Glad you got it working but I'm sad it has to go.

Who knows... fate may conspire in a way that I keep the Subaru. But, for now I'm low on money and I need the parking space. My cars, my wife's car and my tenant's car need to be off the street during snowfall. As of now, I have one car too many.

Right now logic dictates that I keep the "new" car, which gets over 40 MPG and has 100,000 fewer miles on it. I'll probably post the Subaru up on Craigslist tonight and see what heppens. What with Boston winter coming and all, I think I'll get what I want for it, if not close.

[MagicBus]

Epilogue - the Legacy is now sold. Posted it up on Craigslist on Saturday. Pretty much asked for book value (adjusted for mileage and condition). Detailed every bump, nick and quirk on the car, so there would not be any surprises. Got a VERY close offer from the first person to see it and let it go.

So, I'm sad to see it go. This has been one of the best cars I've ever owned. But, I have a feeling it won't be my last first-generation Legacy.

I hope it treats the new owner as well as it treated me. For now, I'm in the Jetta (for better or worse).

[MagicBus]

Double epilogue...

I'm back.


Three months of intermittent drivability (it was broken as often as it was running) and the Jetta diesel pretty much shook itself to pieces. Sold it on Saturday (actually got almost all my money back, including parts).

Went out Sunday and bought a 1995 Legacy Brighton wagon. EJ22 5MT AWD
Really wanted another first generation car, but they're starting to get scarce around here.

Runs and drives well. Suspect it needs a CV axle. Know it needs exhaust work (I can probably patch it up).

[mike-tracy]

Sweet! Welcome back. That was a fear of mine - I wanted an older VW diesel for the mileage but at this stage they're so, so old, and my 90's VW wasn't all that reliable either.

So, now that you have a Legacy again, are you going to do one of your Manuals for them?

[MagicBus]

Sweet! Welcome back.

Thanks. The new car is registered, but I have to fix the muffler and likely a CV axle before I can drive it and take it in for an inspection.

That was a fear of mine - I wanted an older VW diesel for the mileage but at this stage they're so, so old, and my 90's VW wasn't all that reliable either.

Honestly, nobody was more surprised than me. I have a lifelong history with Volkswagens, though not the diesels. Everyone I knew told me they were rock hard reliable and easy to work on. Neither was the case for me. At least for me, that car just didn't seem to want to go much past 200K miles. Conversely, once I fixed the timing issue on my old Legacy, it looked like it would go ANOTHER 300K. Could just be a bad experience on my part, but after two lemons for VW diesels I'm done with them (though I am still into the Mercedes diesels - haven't had a bad one of those yet)

So, now that you have a Legacy again, are you going to do one of your Manuals for them?

Referring to my day job? If so, unfortunately no. A million reasons I can't get into as to why that won't happen.

But, it's a good feeling to be back in a Subaru, albeit a slightly later model.