Lifted 1994 Turbo Wagon

[DaveK]

Just dropped some new struts into my wagon over the weekend, and I've done the swap a little differently than most. I've got a few questions that I wasn't able to find answers for, so hopefully someone can help.

Here's how the car sat before on the stock suspension:



Here's how it sits now:



Ok, so on to the details of what I did. Found a local guy with a set of KYB Excel shocks for a 2005 Forester XT (not sure if model matters since these were aftermarket replacements) which included the entire front assembly (strut, spring, top hat) and rear strut and spring.

-Front strut/spring/top hat all swapped in as a unit. Easy fitment.

-Rear FOR strut with Legacy spring & top hat. The rear FOR spring is tapered so doesn't work with the legacy top hat, so that's what forced my hand on that rear setup.

I wanted the car a bit higher than before, but I think the front is too high in relation to the rears. Being on not-blown shocks is much better! I also feel like the front is a bit on the soft side now.

Now, from what I've found, the turbo legacy wagon came with 134F/190R spring rates (lengths unknown). With some searching I've found the Forester came with 118F/157R springs, but I don't know if that's from a reputable source...or if the FXT model came with stiffer ones.

I'm setting the car up to be fun on gravel roads and snow, and from my experience, having body roll is actually a good thing as it gives your tires time to take a good set on slippery surfaces. One of the best car's I've played with (on the snow/ice) is a stock suspension 2.5RS. The 2.5RS came with 157F/149R springs, so a set of front springs might do the trick...but I'm not sure if they might be too short to be used in the Forester strut.

So, my question is, does anyone know what the spring heights are between the 05 Forester and 94 Legacy and know what that might do to my front ride height? I can pull stuff apart and play...but just figured someone might just know this off the top of their head and save me the trouble of swapping only to find issues.

Any help appreciated!

Dave

[subaru_styles]

maybe try sti springs?

[Legacy777]

Dave,

The Legacy wagon is a bit bigger/heavier car than the Forester or Impreza, which is why it got heavier spring rates. Out of curiosity, did you try and run the forester struts with the Legacy springs? The lifted suspension is typically achieved by a longer strut body or where the spring perch is positioned. So you may be able to keep the stock Legacy wagon springs and use the forester struts which will give you a little bit of a lift.

[DaveK]

Out of curiosity, did you try and run the forester struts with the Legacy springs?

Not on the front yet - was just asking the question here to see if it was worth the time to remove the fronts and try mixing and matching. My biggest concern was that the legacy springs might not be tall enough to be held captive in the forester strut, but of all the spring comparisons I've seen online, I haven't seen a comparison to old legacy wagons.

Dave

[DaveK]

The Forester spring is about 15" tall and the Legacy spring is about 12" tall.

The Legacy spring was a PITA to get compressed enough to fit into the Forester strut, but mainly because with the spring compressor tools I had, you grabbed 3 coils on one side, but just 2 on the other so you couldn't compress it easily.

Dropped the front about 3/4" of an inch I think. Looks more even now and handles better IMO, but haven't had a chance to drive much in the way of twisties.

Dave

[James614]

Looks good. I was going to go this route for my car before I got into Auto-X. Nice to know that Forester struts will still add a substantial lift with the stock Legacy springs.

[DaveK]

Here's another pic of the car with the Legacy wagon springs on all corners:



Dave

[turbo970]

where in colorado?

[DaveK]

Denver area...but the plan is that this'll be my commuter to Steamboat on the weekends in the winter. Still a few bugs to work out, but luckliy I've got a few months to get through the rest of the things.

Dave

[turbo970]

i'm down in the durango area sweet ride

[MrFluffyBunny]

I am really happy to find some one that did what I have wanted to do. I really like the way it looks and the way you did it makes it sound easy and fairly cheap. It looks great. I do have a question for you. When you did the swap did you happen to take any pix? Also I'm wondering if 98 forester struts would work also since you used 05. I would think 98 would work. I have access to some 98's thats why I mention them.

[beatersubi]

Dave, rear tophats from a pre-facelift (89-91) might work with the tapered fozzy springs, if you wanted to try to keep them. I suspect that XT model might've come with a tad higher rates. But if the leggy springs are working for you, no reason to change.
MrFluffyBunny,
Subaru changed the design of the fozzy strut from first-gen to second (~'02, i think). The '98 struts you have will give you some lift, but the later design is good for a bit more.

[MrFluffyBunny]

Fourth Gear,
Thanks for the info, Ill take any lift right now. The main reason being when I got my car some where some one thought that cutting the springs would be a good way to lower it. Now this can work with older american cars. And work well, but not with this car. And I want to start to get into some rally and why not with a subaru.

[Legacy777]

Welcome to the BBS.

If the springs were cut, I'd highly recommend replacing them. The ride is going to suffer with the cut springs, especially if you're wanting to rally it.

[DaveK]

I may have some other pics in my phone still of spring length comparisons. The shocks I pulled off were shot, so I don't think I snapped any of the shocks, since the pistons on the old ones were sunken in. PM me your phone number and I can send them if you'd like.

The three pics of before during and after of the car at rest are all posted above.

Dave

[wtdash]

Dave,
Are the rears tucked under a bit? Looks like positive camber? Wondering if you'll need a camber adjustment>>camber bolts. Or just the way it's sitting?

I had a '90 Wagon and had '98 OB take offs, '08 FXT take offs, '06 WRX struts/tops w/sti springs and finally '99 legacy wagon take offs on it. I 'ghetto'd' the rear holes to fit the top hot bolt pattern, as the '90-91 were different...everything else fit and the '05 FXT should've been plug and play w/your '94.

I also had the saggy butt, which they make spacers for, so an option for others - to keep the extra height and balance to the front - is to get the spacers (may need longer top bolt studs for anything more than 1/2"). That way there's no springs to change.

I've read on cars101.com that the XT does have a bit more lift than the stock Forester...may be due to the longer struts, but can't confirm.

FWIW, I like the way your car looks w/the Legacy springs on those tires. Nice work.

For reference, as it's posted on here and the USMB multiple places, is the the OB struts -'96-'99 - are also a direct swap for the '92+ Legacy and have a balanced look - Side view w/OB struts and 205/70R-15 snow tires (26.29 in. tall):


You can also run taller tires - I had 205-70R-15 (similar to 215-60R-16 - stock on earlier Foresters) on mine....to get another 1/2" + of lift. - I did have rubbing, but only @ full lock on the inner fender liner.

Also, the rear wheels get close to the fender w/the lift and taller tire-Side view w/FXT struts and 205/60R-16 tires (25.68 in. tall)::


LINK when I went from OB>>FXT struts.

Nice ride and having the turbo @ altitude helps keep the power avl.,

TD

[MrFluffyBunny]

Welcome to the BBS.

If the springs were cut, I'd highly recommend replacing them. The ride is going to suffer with the cut springs, especially if you're wanting to rally it.

thanks for the welcome. I am planning on rplacing the springs. But i am having a hard time finsing stock replacements. Junk yards around here are pretty slim.

[DaveK]

Rears don't have any negative camber that's for sure. Might be right at zero if I'm lucky. Its not a race car for me, so I don't care all that much...the lack of negative camber in the back might make it more tail happy, so I'm cool with that.

Wheels and tires are just what came with the car. About to 'downsize' for the winter to 15" wheels with some Hankook I-Pikes. Can't remember the size (thinking its a 205/70/15), but I got them for playing around in the mud for my Evo, so I think they're a bit taller than what the Legacy normally uses.

Dave

[wtdash]

The wheels/tires you have on there now look like 205-55R-16? Not stock. They're off a Legacy GT, I believe.

stock 195/60R-15 are 24.25"

205-70R-15 are 26.25"

Also, I'd make sure you don't have bigger brakes on the front - which is why it has 16" wheels. 15" won't fit over WRX brakes...not sure the easiest way to ID them...you could measure the rotor's diameter?

Td

[Legacy777]

thanks for the welcome. I am planning on rplacing the springs. But i am having a hard time finsing stock replacements. Junk yards around here are pretty slim.

You may want to post something in the Parts Shed, as there are folks with spare cars and parts and better junkyards around.

[DaveK]

Correct on the rims and I'm 90% sure that's what tire size is on there...and I'm 100% sure I'm down to the wear bars.

Funny story! A buddy of mine sold me a set of 15" legacy wheels back in March or so when I bought the car. This summer I started searching for cheap upgrades since I don't want to drop the cash on 4-pots/2-pots, and it turns out he's also got a set of WRX calipers modded to fit under those 15" wheels (which he was using for rallyx). So, all I've got to do is meet up with him and grab a set of WRX discs and I'm in business if it does turn out that someone upgraded the wagon at some point in the past.

Dave