Another blowby question...lots of info/Q's

[alexandermf]

Well my car has hit 230k almost with immaculate maintenance the last year and half/40k or so and supposedly by the po. I've been reading up on some excessive oil blowby threads but can't seem to narrow mine down. I will list mods and maint and symptoms pertaining to my problem, obviously not going to list every single mod and fix I've ever done.

Mods:
Td04(fully rebuilt within the year) to replace my vf11 which was burning oil bad from seals
Tmic
Turbo blanket
Perrin catch can teed into valve breathers to intake(where I get most my oil blowby I believe)
Full catless Invidia tbe
Diamond coilpack

Recent maint:
Rear main seal(within month)
Metal oil seperator plate(within month)
Valve cover gaskets(within year)
New ngk plugs(haven't changed wires)
Compression test(98.96.97.95) or something like that and that's super high altitude at slodrive racing in Longmont, co. Greg said these numbers were fine)
Leak down test- all less than 10% and nothing leaking from the cyl/valves

I know my metal backing plate by the up pipe seeps and I know the cam plug on opposite end of engine om driver side seeps. Other than that my car doesnt leak any oil. It does burn/blow it by though.

I only use Mobil 1 5w/30 and change it every 2k miles, always watch the level and make sure its topped off. Obviously it gets low when I get on it over a weekend or go into high boost a lot. If I granny the car it doesn't as bad at all.

Symptoms:

-Ever since i owned the car it's always ran rich. It runs so rich you can smell it and my exhaust tail pipe is constantly black.

-Always spews out nasty black crap upon cold startups for the first crank ish or so. Here's a pic(usually not this bad, more splattery looking)


-When cruising out with friends they will see me blow a bunch of oil/smoke in high rev/wot and after I accelerate after I've been sitting at a red light or parked for a couple mins

Soo I know my engine is wearing slowly, but can I do anything in the meantime to slow the blowby or make it last longer. I run around 8-12 lbs max when I do get on it but usually drive it within the 1-5lbs daily driving. I think my pcv valve could be bad(felt like this for a while) because Joe had seafoeamed through his pcv hose(turning hose upside down so seafoam goes into pcv valve to intake mani) before with great results and lots of white smoke out his exhaust and when I tried to go through mine I wasn't getting ANYTHING out the exhaust. Like the valve wasn't even funneling the seafoam into the intake manifold. So I've used alternate routes for seafoam since then but its been about a year since I tried through the pcv and thought it was acting funky. Never changed though cuz never saw a cel for it and the car always ran fine.

Could this indicate a bad pcv valve and cause a lot more of my blowby I'm experiencing than I should be? I wanna get this problem under control because reading through the threads I've heard the leakdown test helps show if my rings are going(which I'm sure they slowly are) but my test was fine. Also my car runs phenomenal and afr are usually fine in and out of boost minus running really rich.

[wtdash]

HI,
You're on the stock ECU and injectors, too?

The PCV valve is not electronic - there will be no code thrown...This is the PCV if uncertain (diffent engine - same location):


Replace the PCV valve - Easy to do. On one of my Subies it was the cause of the blue smoke. Also, make sure your catch-can setup is plumbed correctly. I had that messed up and also caused smoke out the exhaust.

I'm not sure about the 'running rich'.

GL,
TD

[alexandermf]

Ugh I'm gonna replace it asap.. hopefully haven't done any damage. Yes on stock ecu and stock injectors

[Legacy777]

As Todd suggested, replace the PCV valve. In order to have it suck in the sea foam, you need to put your finger over the end so it creates a vacuum in the hose.

Using this diagram and the hose numbers, can you please tell me exactly where the catch can is hooked up.

What color is the smoke that is coming out your tail pipe? If it's all black, then it's primarily fuel not oil. Do you know how old your coolant temp sensor is? That has a large impact on the ECU's fueling and could be causing you to run rich.

What is your average MPG?

[alexandermf]

Sorry josh on all the posts everywhere at once, ive just been trying to tackle everything recently since its not below freezing out.

I haven't had any codes come back up since I got my speedo cable in but ill go out now to active check and see if anything comes up.

I've never replaced the coolant temp sensor, I'm gonna seafoam today and check codes and ill get back to this thread with updates in a few hours

Also back to my starting issue, its definately something with contacts being loose somewhere between ignition and starter. I took out dash yesterday and steering column trim and am able to wiggle the assembly around with the key in pretty bad. So I'm gonna rule out a battery/charging problem and say its loose contacts/grounds. Just gotta find out where exactly.

[alexandermf]

My catch can is teed into my valve cover besther hoses coming off the sides of the engine. One on each side tees together to feed into can and from there goes into my coffee cup mod. I had more oil coming through those vent hoses than the rear crank vent so that's where slodrive set it up at

[alexandermf]

Just checked codes.

33, 51, 52

Why is the vss code still there?! Speedo is installed fine and working fine

[Legacy777]

I've never replaced the coolant temp sensor, I'm gonna seafoam today and check codes and ill get back to this thread with updates in a few hours

Also back to my starting issue, its definately something with contacts being loose somewhere between ignition and starter. I took out dash yesterday and steering column trim and am able to wiggle the assembly around with the key in pretty bad. So I'm gonna rule out a battery/charging problem and say its loose contacts/grounds. Just gotta find out where exactly.

It wouldn't hurt to replace the coolant temp sensor if you don't know the age, especially since you're having temp/fueling related issues.

I also think your issue is related to wiring and specifically related to how the MT swap was done.

[Legacy777]

My catch can is teed into my valve cover besther hoses coming off the sides of the engine. One on each side tees together to feed into can and from there goes into my coffee cup mod. I had more oil coming through those vent hoses than the rear crank vent so that's where slodrive set it up at

Can you please tell me exactly how it's setup by using the diagram below and saying for example: "Hose 5 goes into the catch can, the hose comes out and back into the intake". I need to completely understand how you have the hoses setup. A picture in MS paint works as well.

http://surrealmirage.com/vrg3/vacuum/ej22t_pcv.gif

[Legacy777]

Just checked codes.

33, 51, 52

Why is the vss code still there?! Speedo is installed fine and working fine

Did you use the black connectors or the green connectors?

Did you clear the codes? Those may be old codes. Try using the procedure on my site with both the black and green connectors to clear the codes and then use just the green connectors to check for active codes.

[alexandermf]

I used both black and green to clear them using your site instructions. I hsvent seen the cel pop up while driving actually since I installed the cable right. Those codes popped up while doing the active diagnostic with both connectors and driving around till they pop up.

Also I will replace the coolant temp sensor then but I have trouble believing my hesitation issue is coming from the wiring from the swap. I wasn't getting this hesitation right after I got my car back from greg at slodrive. This has been more recent.

From that picture hoses 8+9 tie together and run to a hose going to my catch can, then the hose coming out of can go to my coffee cup. Super simple, I'd also like to say I was having blowby issues before I installed the catch can. Once I installed the catch can it DID help the issue a little but obviously not all the way. Not blowing as much smoke/oil/fuel since can. Also the color is grey ish/blue from what I've heard I'm blowing out. Looks mostly like unburnt fuel to me when I smell/look down at it on garage floor after starting my car up

[alexandermf]

Josh I just cleared codes and active checking them. Only getting 51 and 52 now. Trying to get ahold pf Greg to chime in here about his wiring for the swap

Also only got 180 miles on complete tank averaging 14.6 mpg

[macipusy]

To really fight the blow-by, you need all breathers going to the catch can. The whole PCV tree by the turbo should be reworked to go to the catch can before running to the intake. Also, it would be nice to have the catch can drain back into the valve cover so it recirculates the oil it catches.



On my RSTi (stroked ej22t build) I got rid of the PCV valve all together. Plugged it on the intake with a 1/4"NPT plug, and ran the all the hoses coming off the block to the catch can, then plugged all the extra nipples on the intake. I get very minimal oil in the intercooler, even with brand new rings....this is because it is difficult to condense out 100% of the oil vapors.

I am going to do this on my 93 TW as well. I am super happy with the results of this setup on my RSTi, one of the best mods I have done to my Subaru. Oil in the turbo, intrcooler and manifold is no bueno....especially running E85.

[turbo970]

could ya put a pic of ya set up? i'd like to do that with my 92. i have blowby on a almost stock set up too

[alexandermf]

I'd like too see this setup as well from your rsti. So you have an aos and not a catch can?

[Legacy777]

Josh I just cleared codes and active checking them. Only getting 51 and 52 now. Trying to get ahold pf Greg to chime in here about his wiring for the swap

Also only got 180 miles on complete tank averaging 14.6 mpg

You are getting codes 51 & 52 because the TCU is still there and MT/AT identifier pin is still telling the ECU that the car is an AT. If you remove the TCU, shift lock computer, and appropriately pin the MT/AT identifier it should take care of those codes, however I don't know what Greg did or did not do with the wiring, so I don't know if by doing those things it will affect or change something else.

I can tell you that when switching the MT/AT pin the ECU will do some different things with the idle speed and timing at idle. Let us know what you hear from Greg.

Does your cruise control currently work?

[Legacy777]

From that picture hoses 8+9 tie together and run to a hose going to my catch can, then the hose coming out of can go to my coffee cup. Super simple, I'd also like to say I was having blowby issues before I installed the catch can. Once I installed the catch can it DID help the issue a little but obviously not all the way. Not blowing as much smoke/oil/fuel since can. Also the color is grey ish/blue from what I've heard I'm blowing out. Looks mostly like unburnt fuel to me when I smell/look down at it on garage floor after starting my car up

How you have the catch can setup is not necessarily the best setup. The vents on the heads primarily bring fresh air into the crankcase and the oil vapors are drawn out through the center port on the back of the engine. These vapors are drawn in through the PCV valve and into the intake elbow when the engine is under vacuum. When the engine is under boost the vapors are drawn into only the intake elbow. You may see some oil vapor come out of the vents on the heads if you have excess blow by.

To properly setup a catch can or air oil separator, you really need two of them; one for the back port on the block and a second for vents on the valve covers. The way I have mine setup is I have the vent on the back of the block going to a catch can and then have a filter/coalescer just above the vents on the heads that helps condense any oil vapor and causes it to drain back into the heads. This setup has worked very well for me.

Check out this thread and this diagram to understand how the PCV system works.

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=50906

http://www.main.experiencetherave.com/s ... _turbo.pdf

[Legacy777]

On my RSTi (stroked ej22t build) I got rid of the PCV valve all together. Plugged it on the intake with a 1/4"NPT plug, and ran the all the hoses coming off the block to the catch can, then plugged all the extra nipples on the intake. I get very minimal oil in the intercooler, even with brand new rings....this is because it is difficult to condense out 100% of the oil vapors.

I'm sure you're aware of it, but so others know, by removing the PCV valve you eliminate one of the vacuum sources for the crank case vapors to be sucked out under engine vacuum conditions. Since you have everything going through the catch can, and as long as the catch can is working well you shouldn't see much oil carryover. However, with the PCV valve still remaining I would imagine the vapors in the crank case would be removed more quickly.

For others, I understand that by removing the PCV valve will simplify the PCV hoses/routing, but if you can keep it, I'd recommend it.

[alexandermf]

Josh Greg told me he didn't touch the identifier pin so ill look on your swap into and try to fix that asap.

As for my hesitation its different now since I changed the spark plugs... Before as I mentioned my injectors were going static with horrible power loss in later rpms around 5k. Now.... I get hesitation from 1-4k ish then it kicks in and the boost feels full and smooth through last seconds of the higher rpms.

My thoughts to check now are the maf sensor(which my car likes to go through), knock sensor wiring by the white connector pluggin looks a lil shady and I threw a knock sensor code last month(replaced and hasn't come back but that's when my car started all this hesitation stuff..., then alternator which has seemed to help similar hesitation issues ive read through(also replaced my alt last month with a used one)

[alexandermf]

Also my cruise isnt all wired up, from Greg:
The brake switch is intact on your car but there's no clutch switch.

[Legacy777]

Did Greg indicate what else he did for the wiring part of the swap? Look through my swap write up. All of those things with the exception of the starter interlock relay should be done.

[alexandermf]

He said he did everything but identifier pin which said didn't cause issues for him when he swapped his turbo wagon. I will report back tomorrow with findings for hesitation and looking at the wiring

[macipusy]

Josh is correct about the PCV valve delete removing a source of vacuum. One way to help this, is to run a large hose as the vacuum pull on the catch can (from the intake to catch can). The setup Josh has described is superior to what I have....it retains more vacuum pull within that system, most importantly when the TB is closed under deceleration.

Just want to clarify that I am not recommending anyone to delete the PCV. I and a core group of my friends simply like to run experiments on our cars. We try innovative things which sometimes work and sometimes not. I do post things I do, and anyone is welcome to try at your own risk. Just be aware of the consequences.

Photos of my setup can be seen throughout my build thread. Link is in my sig.

The main reason I eliminated the PCV valve is to try to eliminate 100% of the oil in my charge air. Seems like E85 has a tendency to knock out the oil from the air and deposit it on the heads and pistons in the form of black sludge. At least that is my theory at the moment.

[alexandermf]

Alright lots of updates...

-Replaced coolant temp sensor with Subaru oem
-swapped mafs with Chris and found out his was worse off than mine lol, but I think mine is good because I'm no longer getting funky afr or static readings in boost
-fixed my ghetto white connector for the knock sensor, got a nice clean, unbroken one off a NA and spliced it in, seems to work fine
-tightened all my silicone(my ypipe silicone was sooo loose, was practically sliding off, so I went around and found some more loose ones)

After I did all this and went to start it it sounded sooo great idleing and whatnot. Felt like it sounded really clean for the first time in a while. Hoping I had fixed my hesitation I went for a drive, still there... but, my car does run a lot better BESIDES the hesitation. Still the same where no matter what level of boost I'm reading from the gauge, in low rpms it feels sooo weak and lagging like 50% then around 5.5-6k it finally kicks in fully 100%. No matter the gear as well.

Only thing I haven't tried is a brand new alternator...I've read a couple threads on bbs with SAME hesitation that were cured by this.

Josh-I still haven't gotten to the pin identifier yet, but this morning when I went to start it, it did the whole not wanting to start shenanigans...tried wiggling around the key with no luck then tried jumping it and it started up(no wiggling required) so is this my pin identifier stuff you think or needing a new alternator that's possibly causing my hesitation and dying problems? Should I try and new alternator instead of this used one I got from the junkyard? Other than that my car feels right again unless of course I go into boost and hesitation kicks in

Edit(Tue/21) : getting weird high pitch squeals as well coming from alternator or ac belt area at idle, comes n goes. Belts are newish and don't look off track.

[alexandermf]

Well bought a used maf from a yard and no more funky afr readings or hesitation. On the way to the yard I popped a tire which wasnt fun in freezing weather and flat spare. Luckily found a cheap set of snow tires at a neighboring salvage yard that helped me out in the tight spot! What a morning....


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