An AWIC and A/A IC idea, although probably not a good one.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 9:06 pm

How benificial would it be to ad a small air to air intercooler to the piping system of an AWIC? For instance, what if you used a small heater core from a truck or something and stuck it up next to the heat exhanger for the AWIC, but used it to throw air through instead? You could run the pipe through that then run it back to the AWIC.

hehe, I know it probably sounds abserd, it probably would have a lot more lag, and the drawbacks of using it may not outway the benefits, but for some reason I was thinking of this the other night. Has anyone ever heard of something like this being done?

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:08 pm

You mean to essentially put an air/air intercooler in parallel with the air/water intercooler?

I don't see what the benefits would be... The only disadvantages (that I can think of) of a proper air/water intercooler setup would be weight and complexity, and this setup would hurt both, no? Or am I missing something?

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 10:27 pm

you mean put a air/air cooler instead of the front water heat exchanger? why not just get a bigger heat exchanger and water pump? if you were going to convert your water/air to air/air it wouldnt work, have you seen the size of the hoses that carry the water to the intercooler? it would defeat the purpose of putting a front heat exchanger on there.

JUST GO FMIC

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:27 pm

I think the best idea for the air to air would be to run a duct to the high pressure area on the vehicle and vent it towards the heat exchanger.

Front mounts suck.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Thu Jan 08, 2004 11:41 pm

Well basically it would run the full on AWIC setup, and then you'd have a small front mount sitting there too. Like Ciper said though, it probably wouldn't have any benefits.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:09 am

the way i see it, the advantages offered by either setup are mutually exclusive. therefore, by combining them, you get neither's benefits.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 9:33 am

I don't understand what you guys are trying to do. the AWIC is full of water. the air/air is full of

air

to put a fmic you would have to extend piping all the way down the front of the car and back to the inlet manifold, hence defeating the purpose of having a short air path in the water/air setup.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:31 pm

"defeating the purpose of having a short air path in the water/air setup."

Yes but not defeating the fact that a water intercooler has a huge buffer. A water intercooler can function just fine standing still, an air/air unit needs air flow constantly to work.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Mon Jan 12, 2004 8:57 pm

Well I wasn't "trying" to do anything really. I was just throwing an idea out there which I thought was probably a bad one, and I wanted to see what other people had to say about it.

scottzg · Post by **scottzg** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:11 am

ciper wrote: Yes but not defeating the fact that a water intercooler has a huge buffer. A water intercooler can function just fine standing still, an air/air unit needs air flow constantly to work.

usually, if i use my turbo for any length of time, im goin pretty fast.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 3:12 am

But you'd get fast faster if your intercooler works even as you're just starting to accelerate.

czo79 · Post by **czo79** » Wed Jan 14, 2004 11:59 am

I think ciper said it best about running a duct to the air/water heat exchanger. That way you aren't really adding any complexity to the system or lengthing the intake tract as with front mounts...And you will probably get some cooling effect on both the intake air and the water in the exchanger. Probably not really very much...but maybe if you designed a water/air exchanger from the start with this in mind, and set up a nice splitter or whatever to direct air over it. Of course you wouldn't want to lose any efficiency at air/water heat exchange in the process...
Thats what I get out of kicking that idea around.
Micum

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 12:47 pm

the air/water heat exchanger is at the front of the car! it will always get cool air

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 7:58 pm

Yeah....I'm confused too...

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:29 pm

"usually, if i use my turbo for any length of time, im goin pretty fast."
Yeah once you are DONE using the turbo. While getting up to that speed the amount of air isnt as great. With the water system it acts like a buffer until enough air is passing. You are able to run HIGHER than normal boost possible with a water system because of this, but only for the amount of time you have water capacity for.

"running a duct to the air/water heat exchanger."
Not the radiator, he is speaking of cooling the intake air to water heat exhcanger.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:50 pm

you mean the intercooler, the heat exchanger is at the front of the car.

just remove the bonnet vent cover on the underside of the hood that will direct air over the intercooler, it does jack shit I can vouch for that.

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 9:59 pm

They are both heat exchangers.
The original post about running a duct was about an AIR to AIR setup which only has one heat exchanger.

If you want to get technical about it then what you call an intercooler isnt even that. Intercooler means a cooler in between two units (turbos for example). Its an aftercooler

The front is referred to as a radiator, just like the one used for engine coolant.

I dont agree with removing the vent cover. Underhood temperatures feel higher when its not installed.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Fri Jan 16, 2004 10:40 pm

So your saying that by removing the vent cover it makes things worse ciper? The underhood temperatures go up?

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 2:27 am

Yeah, the cover pushes air over the turbo and under the vehicle. If the scoop is removed alot of the air exits on the left side of the vehicle letting more heat from the turbo.
I didnt measure the temperature, it was just through feeling. I guess I could be wrong but think of it this way, why did subaru put a vent with cover and chimney if it served no purpose? I see no reason to cool the transmission, remember the back of the engine is in front of the scoop.

georryan · Post by **georryan** » Sat Jan 17, 2004 8:59 am

Yeah I realized what the scoop did, but I didn't realize that it was THAT affective with cooling off the turbo, but it does make sense.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:31 am

the scoop doesn't get much airflow at all, its designed to vent the hot air off the turbo keeping engine bay temps down, air flowing over the turbo doesn't cool it much at all, and the air still vents off the turbo without the cover, i had mine removed but only to fit the FMIC piping

oh, and ciper, it is a intercooler as it is between two units, 1 turbo and 1 engine.[/code]

ciper · Post by **ciper** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:57 pm

No, thats an aftercooler.

You missed the point. Air flowing over the turbo is not to cool the turbo down, its to prevent heat from traveling by convection to the rest of the engine bay. If a curtain of air is continiosly flowing over the turbo you can stick your hand near it and feel little heat.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Sun Jan 18, 2004 11:25 pm

don't you guys have a turbo 'shroud' to help direct the air up and out the bonnet vent? it works just fine without the vent cover. the amount of air that the scoop collects is negligible, thats why I called it a vent, because it does stuff all other than that.

Post by **Legacy777** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 3:33 pm

The hood scoop and shrouding on the US turbo legacy does two things.

It does direct air over the turbo through the backing collector on the scoop and down the "chimney" thing over the turbo. I think that setup does do what ciper said, but I couldn't tell you how much air the scoop brings in or how effective the setup is.

Secondly, when the car is off, the heat from the turbo goes up the chimney and out the scoop....With the location of the turbo and duct work it makes a convection current of air to draw air from underneath the car up over the turbo and out the scoop to help cool things down.

rsstiboy · Post by **rsstiboy** » Mon Jan 19, 2004 10:05 pm

ok, yours has the chimney too, you'll notice the insect screen at the top - very bad for airflow unless its rising off the turbo, if the scoop was bigger it might be able to cool both ways but its not big enough to do that.

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An AWIC and A/A IC idea, although probably not a good one.

An AWIC and A/A IC idea, although probably not a good one.