Jamal's blanket suspension recommendations
Posted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:23 pm
It seems like I've been seeing a lot of "what should I buy" threads, and so I thought I'd make this as a baseline for people to start with.
Before we get started, I need to talk about tires and alignment. Without good tires, and without a good alignment, all the stuff I'm about to list is completely useless. Tires are the only thing actually in contact with the road, so they determine how fast you can turn or stop. A good alignment, in my opinion, means a healthy amount of front negative camber and 0 toe. You also want more camber in the front than the rear. How much depends on what kind of driving you do and a bunch of other things. On my specific car with my parts and the way I like it to handle, I am up to -2.5 degrees in the front, which is probably as much as anyone should ever have on a street driven car.
Why do I recommend a lot of negative camber?
When the car turns, the body rolls and the outside suspension compresses. This causes the tire to lean over towards the outside. That causes the contact patch to go all to hell and the cornering work is done by the sidewall and outside edge. That's bad. More negative camber means more of the tread is in contact with the road in a corner, which means more grip.
For more about why this stuff is important, check out the swaybar faq:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34702
Now that we've come that far, it's time buy parts that keep the tire in better contact with the road.
step 1
When it comes to getting a performance oriented suspension, struts are very important. If you get some quality struts (or dampers, to get technical) and a set of compatible springs, the car is going to perform and often ride much better. Good struts simply do a better job at controlling suspension and body movements to keep the tire against the road. Since we are on a 1st gen Legacy forum and struts don't perform very well after about 60k miles, it's generally smart to replace them, even if it's just OEM equivalent stuff.
step 2
Swaybars. Swaybars are important because they're very effective at limiting body roll which improves the tire contact patch which improves grip, and generally make the car more responsive. Once again I will refer everyone to the swaybar thread
Also just because swaybars are "step 2" it doesn't mean you have to buy new struts and springs first. It's perfectly acceptable to add some swaybar right off the bat, but if you get too carried away they can be too stiff for the rest of the suspension.
step 3
Now we get to "tertiary" products. Those are things like bushings and ALKs and endlinks and the like. They're all pretty great things to have but usually aren't good first suspension modifications to a car since a good set of struts is going to make the biggest difference. However, for a nearly 30 year old car, new suspension bushings are probably a really good idea.
Keep in mind that I stuck with recommendations for buying new, off the shelf parts that are a direct fit for our cars. Once you get into used parts and stuff from other models the general recommendations don't work so well.
fitment note
Very little of the following will be found listing 90-94 Legacy as a fitment, and finding aftermarket upgrades for these cars is getting harder and harder. That said, there is still some stuff around for the 93-01 impreza, and that will mostly all bolt up. In fact, the 92-94 legacy struts and top mounts are the same front and rear, but springs do differ a bit. The impreza is a little lighter and the legacy wagon has stiffer and taller rear springs. The other thing is, if you have a 90-91, you'll need to go to the 92-94/GC rear top mounts for a lot of this stuff to work.
There are some other considerations for wagons because they have fat asses. You pretty much have to use wagon-specific springs or coilover sleeves if you want things to work right. Also most of this only applies to AWD cars.
__________
Stage 1: Basic OEM replacement
KYB GR2/excel G struts. These are the best option for an oem strut replacement. You might be able to get a cheaper strut on rockauto at your parts store but the excel-g is a decent part and kyb one of the oem manufacturers of struts. A set of these will make your car ride and handle much better.
$300 range, works with FWD.
The next step up would be to pair these with a set of springs. Eibach and H&R both make a set of springs for the Impreza, or used to anyway. Eibach shows "not available" on their website. King I believe also has lowering, standard height, and lift springs that will fit.
__________
Budget higher performance setup. The next step up from the basic kybs is a nicer strut. You can get an AGX in impreza fitment, which is KYB's strut with and adjustment knob. Koni also makes inserts, but not all legacy and impreza struts are made by the same manufacturer so you have to make sure your housings are compatible with the inserts. Add some coilover sleeves and you have a nice set of suspension for around $1000 that gives you adjustable ride height and damping.
For $1000 or less, though, you can now get a set of complete coilovers that fits these cars. Some stuff (bc, megan, raceland...) I would not recommend. The nice thing is, you still don't need to spend $2000.
Tein, despite some trash talking I might have done previously, has released a more street friendly, budget friendly suspension system called the Street Advance Z. These go for around $700 and work with the stock top mounts.
ST suspension, which are a lower cost version of KW, offer their coilovers in an Impreza fitment as well. The ST X coilover is essentially a KW variant 1. These are a touch more, in the $900 range, and also use the stock top mounts. KW's Variant 1 is also available for these cars, and uses a stainless steel strut housing to reduce corrosion. But this is basically the only difference and they cost around twice as much.
__________
IF you're looking for nicer suspension and willing to spend more, these are your main options:
ST XT-A
KW Variant 3
Bilstein PSS9
DO not buy cheap no-name coilovers. They are crap, mainly because the dampers are crap, they have NO travel, and generally use lower quality materials. Here's some info about why you don't want to do that:
Exhibit A
Nasioc coilover information thread
Another reason I'm so bitchy about cheap coilovers
Good coilovers and why they're better. This thread has tons of good tech information in it.
__________
Okay onto step two-
Swaybars
Swaybars are very good to have. They let you use lower spring rates to maintain a certain amount of body roll. They are also a very good way to balance the handling of the car. If you're going to be on rough roads or rally-xing, smaller bars in the 18-20mm range tend to be better. For track/auto-x/performance street use, you'll want bigger bars in the 22-24mm or larger range.
My personal preference for swaybars is to keep them evenly sized front or rear. That gives the following options:
-turbo 18mm rear swaybar if you don't already have one ($50)
-Legacy 2.5GT (or WRX wagon for turbos) 20mm F and Whiteline 20mm or 22mm R swaybars ($220)
-Whiteline 22mm FSB and 22mm RSB ($350)
The 22mm rear bar is the largest available for our cars. There are more options than that and they can be seen here:
It's also not a bad idea to do endlinks (~$200), urethane swaybar bushings (~$30), and 04+ impreza rear mounts ($20, requires different bushings) while you're at it. They all make sure the swaybar is working at it's maximum efficiency.
__________
Tophats:
Once you get to "stage three," You need to go to better top hats or camber plates. For top mounts there is group N, which are OEM with harder rubber. Whiteline also has a cool offset top that will add quite a bit of caster and a bit of camber. For camber plates, Ground Control, RCE, and MSI all make great ones.
If you're at all concerned with good handling, camber plates are great to have regardless of the setup. With our cars, more front negative camber is pretty much always going to be beneficial. Plus you can use them on almost any other Subaru with any other struts/springs, so it's not like they'll go to waste if you change you car or suspension.
_________
Other stuff
I recommend all of the following parts for people looking to spend money to improve handling
-Whiteline ALK - one of my favorite mods ever
-Whiteline RCA adjusters - necessary with a lowered car
-Subframe lock bolts - these keep the rear subframe from moving around under load.
-replacement lateral link bushings (group n or TiC)
-Steering rack bushings ($25) - cheap and really improve steering feel
-Any other misc harder bushings you want to spend money on
Well, hopefully I'm off to a helpful and informative start. I'll fill in some blanks and add a quick description of the different options later.
_________
Oh, and for reference, here's my setup:
-04 STi suspension with slotted struts and camber bolts for a decent alignment
-Racecomp Engineering black springs
-Whiteline Com-C offset front tophats
-Whiteline 22mm adjustable front swaybar
-Whiteline 22mm adjustable rsb
-Kartboy endlinks
-Whiteline ALK
-Steering rack bushings
-Kartboy race outrigger bushings
-kartboy subframe lock bolts
-Turn in Concepts rear suspension bushing package
I will probably get some good coilovers next because I don't really like the STI struts that much anymore.
Before we get started, I need to talk about tires and alignment. Without good tires, and without a good alignment, all the stuff I'm about to list is completely useless. Tires are the only thing actually in contact with the road, so they determine how fast you can turn or stop. A good alignment, in my opinion, means a healthy amount of front negative camber and 0 toe. You also want more camber in the front than the rear. How much depends on what kind of driving you do and a bunch of other things. On my specific car with my parts and the way I like it to handle, I am up to -2.5 degrees in the front, which is probably as much as anyone should ever have on a street driven car.
Why do I recommend a lot of negative camber?
When the car turns, the body rolls and the outside suspension compresses. This causes the tire to lean over towards the outside. That causes the contact patch to go all to hell and the cornering work is done by the sidewall and outside edge. That's bad. More negative camber means more of the tread is in contact with the road in a corner, which means more grip.
For more about why this stuff is important, check out the swaybar faq:
http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=34702
Now that we've come that far, it's time buy parts that keep the tire in better contact with the road.
step 1
When it comes to getting a performance oriented suspension, struts are very important. If you get some quality struts (or dampers, to get technical) and a set of compatible springs, the car is going to perform and often ride much better. Good struts simply do a better job at controlling suspension and body movements to keep the tire against the road. Since we are on a 1st gen Legacy forum and struts don't perform very well after about 60k miles, it's generally smart to replace them, even if it's just OEM equivalent stuff.
step 2
Swaybars. Swaybars are important because they're very effective at limiting body roll which improves the tire contact patch which improves grip, and generally make the car more responsive. Once again I will refer everyone to the swaybar thread
Also just because swaybars are "step 2" it doesn't mean you have to buy new struts and springs first. It's perfectly acceptable to add some swaybar right off the bat, but if you get too carried away they can be too stiff for the rest of the suspension.
step 3
Now we get to "tertiary" products. Those are things like bushings and ALKs and endlinks and the like. They're all pretty great things to have but usually aren't good first suspension modifications to a car since a good set of struts is going to make the biggest difference. However, for a nearly 30 year old car, new suspension bushings are probably a really good idea.
Keep in mind that I stuck with recommendations for buying new, off the shelf parts that are a direct fit for our cars. Once you get into used parts and stuff from other models the general recommendations don't work so well.
fitment note
Very little of the following will be found listing 90-94 Legacy as a fitment, and finding aftermarket upgrades for these cars is getting harder and harder. That said, there is still some stuff around for the 93-01 impreza, and that will mostly all bolt up. In fact, the 92-94 legacy struts and top mounts are the same front and rear, but springs do differ a bit. The impreza is a little lighter and the legacy wagon has stiffer and taller rear springs. The other thing is, if you have a 90-91, you'll need to go to the 92-94/GC rear top mounts for a lot of this stuff to work.
There are some other considerations for wagons because they have fat asses. You pretty much have to use wagon-specific springs or coilover sleeves if you want things to work right. Also most of this only applies to AWD cars.
__________
Stage 1: Basic OEM replacement
KYB GR2/excel G struts. These are the best option for an oem strut replacement. You might be able to get a cheaper strut on rockauto at your parts store but the excel-g is a decent part and kyb one of the oem manufacturers of struts. A set of these will make your car ride and handle much better.
$300 range, works with FWD.
The next step up would be to pair these with a set of springs. Eibach and H&R both make a set of springs for the Impreza, or used to anyway. Eibach shows "not available" on their website. King I believe also has lowering, standard height, and lift springs that will fit.
__________
Budget higher performance setup. The next step up from the basic kybs is a nicer strut. You can get an AGX in impreza fitment, which is KYB's strut with and adjustment knob. Koni also makes inserts, but not all legacy and impreza struts are made by the same manufacturer so you have to make sure your housings are compatible with the inserts. Add some coilover sleeves and you have a nice set of suspension for around $1000 that gives you adjustable ride height and damping.
For $1000 or less, though, you can now get a set of complete coilovers that fits these cars. Some stuff (bc, megan, raceland...) I would not recommend. The nice thing is, you still don't need to spend $2000.
Tein, despite some trash talking I might have done previously, has released a more street friendly, budget friendly suspension system called the Street Advance Z. These go for around $700 and work with the stock top mounts.
ST suspension, which are a lower cost version of KW, offer their coilovers in an Impreza fitment as well. The ST X coilover is essentially a KW variant 1. These are a touch more, in the $900 range, and also use the stock top mounts. KW's Variant 1 is also available for these cars, and uses a stainless steel strut housing to reduce corrosion. But this is basically the only difference and they cost around twice as much.
__________
IF you're looking for nicer suspension and willing to spend more, these are your main options:
ST XT-A
KW Variant 3
Bilstein PSS9
DO not buy cheap no-name coilovers. They are crap, mainly because the dampers are crap, they have NO travel, and generally use lower quality materials. Here's some info about why you don't want to do that:
Exhibit A
Nasioc coilover information thread
Another reason I'm so bitchy about cheap coilovers
Good coilovers and why they're better. This thread has tons of good tech information in it.
__________
Okay onto step two-
Swaybars
Swaybars are very good to have. They let you use lower spring rates to maintain a certain amount of body roll. They are also a very good way to balance the handling of the car. If you're going to be on rough roads or rally-xing, smaller bars in the 18-20mm range tend to be better. For track/auto-x/performance street use, you'll want bigger bars in the 22-24mm or larger range.
My personal preference for swaybars is to keep them evenly sized front or rear. That gives the following options:
-turbo 18mm rear swaybar if you don't already have one ($50)
-Legacy 2.5GT (or WRX wagon for turbos) 20mm F and Whiteline 20mm or 22mm R swaybars ($220)
-Whiteline 22mm FSB and 22mm RSB ($350)
The 22mm rear bar is the largest available for our cars. There are more options than that and they can be seen here:
It's also not a bad idea to do endlinks (~$200), urethane swaybar bushings (~$30), and 04+ impreza rear mounts ($20, requires different bushings) while you're at it. They all make sure the swaybar is working at it's maximum efficiency.
__________
Tophats:
Once you get to "stage three," You need to go to better top hats or camber plates. For top mounts there is group N, which are OEM with harder rubber. Whiteline also has a cool offset top that will add quite a bit of caster and a bit of camber. For camber plates, Ground Control, RCE, and MSI all make great ones.
If you're at all concerned with good handling, camber plates are great to have regardless of the setup. With our cars, more front negative camber is pretty much always going to be beneficial. Plus you can use them on almost any other Subaru with any other struts/springs, so it's not like they'll go to waste if you change you car or suspension.
_________
Other stuff
I recommend all of the following parts for people looking to spend money to improve handling
-Whiteline ALK - one of my favorite mods ever
-Whiteline RCA adjusters - necessary with a lowered car
-Subframe lock bolts - these keep the rear subframe from moving around under load.
-replacement lateral link bushings (group n or TiC)
-Steering rack bushings ($25) - cheap and really improve steering feel
-Any other misc harder bushings you want to spend money on
Well, hopefully I'm off to a helpful and informative start. I'll fill in some blanks and add a quick description of the different options later.
_________
Oh, and for reference, here's my setup:
-04 STi suspension with slotted struts and camber bolts for a decent alignment
-Racecomp Engineering black springs
-Whiteline Com-C offset front tophats
-Whiteline 22mm adjustable front swaybar
-Whiteline 22mm adjustable rsb
-Kartboy endlinks
-Whiteline ALK
-Steering rack bushings
-Kartboy race outrigger bushings
-kartboy subframe lock bolts
-Turn in Concepts rear suspension bushing package
I will probably get some good coilovers next because I don't really like the STI struts that much anymore.