Auto-X Turbo for a SS?

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:10 pm

Hey which of these 2 turbos will work better for auto-x on a ej22t - TD05-16G 90* inlet or TD04-90* inlet?
I think the TD04 will be better, but have never driven a ej22t with a 16G before.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:07 pm

I think the 16G will still come on plenty early for autocross use, and will give you a lot more oompf than the TD04

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:16 pm

Even with the 3.9 ratio of the Legacy Turbo?

I'm just trying to think this through, would the displacement provide enough torque to get you through the corners before the boost hits?

I'm not sure how turbo lag impacts auto-x performance.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:39 pm

With a manual tranny, one should be able to stay in a range where boost is damn near as quick as your right foot is. If you are taking corners at 2500 rpm, you're doing it wrong.

I have not driven a 3.90 five speed for about five years, so I don't recall how spaced out the gears are.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:57 pm

[quote="93forestpearl"If you are taking corners at 2500 rpm, you're doing it wrong.[/quote]

Don't I know it. The 180 turns kill me every time. I always come in hotter than I should, and then I loose all my speed.

Granted last season was my first year, and I was in a 1.8L Impreza.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 12:10 am

^ That's one thing I like about the six speed that some don't necessarily like, and that is how second gear is pretty short so you can really put the wood to it in low speed corners.

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:09 am

Well on a 8.5:1 CR 4eat EJ20G the TD05-16G hits MAX boost (17-18psi) @ about 3700RPMS.
On my OBS high compression phase II ej22 The TD05-16G hits max boost before 3000 rpms.

? max boost RPMs on a ej22t.

But Dan is right you should be on boil going through the course so the turbo should be spooled just about the whole time.

I must say the 16G did have much better omph than a TD04 on the EJ20G.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:38 am

Did some searching and found a good thread:

http://bbs.legacycentral.org/viewtopic.php?t=23665

Cliffnotes from it: Everybody had a different opinion

I'll start the season out with a VF-10, and maybe work up to a 16g.

I own a VF8, VF10, VF11, and I found a 05 wrx TD04 as well, so if I purchase stock in Subaru exhaust gaskets, I can test a few out and see what works best! The key for me is to stick with 90* inlet and 90* outlet for ease of install and IC piping. Still debating on my IC choices, I have both front and top mounts available.

AWD_addict · Post by **AWD_addict** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:27 am

n2x4 wrote:so if I purchase stock in Subaru exhaust gaskets, I can test a few out and see what works best!

Top mounts should be better for Auto-X type short courses. But if you already have both, you might as well experiment to find your best turbo/IC combo.

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 5:55 am

Dam Nate you have a pretty big collection of turbos!

I have a few too many Subaru turbos as well - 12 turbos in fact for just 2 turbo cars, I have to dump a few....

FMIC - forget the top mount speaking from experience you will not have any additional lag.

TMIC will just get hot while you wait around for your run & keep heating up after you turn the car off (heat rising off the hot engine will get the TMIC burning hot).

TMIC is only good if you want something to slap on the car quickly & do not feel like fussing with FMIC tubing.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 6:50 am

I've been wondering the same thing about the turbo's for auto-x. My current thought was on the TD-04. While I agree that you shouldn't be at 2700 rpm through the corners, sometimes it's hard to go from 2-1 coming into the tight corner and the RPM's do drop a bit out of the 3500 range.

Albeit, this will be my first year having a manual tranny so my opinion may differ as my previous experience was with the 4eat.

And Dan is right on the 6sp. It does give a lot of room to work the course and let you get really low. One day I'll have one, but for now I'll make due with my new/rebuilt 5mt

.

Lastly with regards to intercooling, and this is one I cannot stress enough, don't even mess with a TMIC for Auto-X. Some searching with my user name in the intercooling forum should bring up my results and why I switch from TMIC to water/meth inject - I was routinely seeing under hood temps in excess of 180* sitting in grid. Nothing like the rush of racing with an additional dose of fear of killing a piston/ring due to an overheated TMIC.

Or atleast that's my take on the situation. I am curious to see what you settle on Carlos and Nate for your turbo selection. I'm curious to see the dyno charts though of the TD-04 with a properly tuned chip, i.e. the Revtronix. I just have a feeling the TD-04 will have more low end torque.

93forestpearl · Post by **93forestpearl** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 7:47 am

skid542 wrote:I've been wondering the same thing about the turbo's for auto-x. My current thought was on the TD-04. While I agree that you shouldn't be at 2700 rpm through the corners, sometimes it's hard to go from 2-1 coming into the tight corner and the RPM's do drop a bit out of the 3500 range.

Albeit, this will be my first year having a manual tranny so my opinion may differ as my previous experience was with the 4eat.

And Dan is right on the 6sp. It does give a lot of room to work the course and let you get really low. One day I'll have one, but for now I'll make due with my new/rebuilt 5mt .

Lastly with regards to intercooling, and this is one I cannot stress enough, don't even mess with a TMIC for Auto-X. Some searching with my user name in the intercooling forum should bring up my results and why I switch from TMIC to water/meth inject - I was routinely seeing under hood temps in excess of 180* sitting in grid. Nothing like the rush of racing with an additional dose of fear of killing a piston/ring due to an overheated TMIC.

Or atleast that's my take on the situation. I am curious to see what you settle on Carlos and Nate for your turbo selection. I'm curious to see the dyno charts though of the TD-04 with a properly tuned chip, i.e. the Revtronix. I just have a feeling the TD-04 will have more low end torque.

Let me get this out there. The payment I do have is a tranny payment. While I don't regret it, others will disagree. A PPG box is nice, but I feel the 6mt is more versatile if you aren't into the strip or frumrollz. I could have gotten my car running much sooner by running the N/A 4.111 box it came with, but after hearing and reading about so many broken trannys, I decided to wait until I could get a decent interest rate.....

That said, I didn't realize that Carlos was going to do this with an auto. With an auto, powerband considerations can be more critical, since you'll have less gears to play with. On the other hand, a simple torque-converter swap can make it so you are never below 3k rpm. hmmmmmm Plus, autos load up the turbo more than a manual, so boost generally comes on sooner (in terms of rpm) than it does with a manual.

I vote for a TC with a bit higher stall, and wire in a switch for the TC lockup. Just don't let it shift with TC locked up unless you want to possibly break stuff.

skid542 · Post by **skid542** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 3:49 pm

93forestpearl wrote: Let me get this out there. The payment I do have is a tranny payment. While I don't regret it, others will disagree. A PPG box is nice, but I feel the 6mt is more versatile if you aren't into the strip or frumrollz. I could have gotten my car running much sooner by running the N/A 4.111 box it came with, but after hearing and reading about so many broken trannys, I decided to wait until I could get a decent interest rate.....

I fully agree with you that a 6sp is the way to go. No questions there. I opted for the 5mt that I did on account that it gets me a solid manual tranny that will hold 300 chp and gets rid of my 4eat. It'll take me a few years to get my second motor built and all the other things I need to reliably run 400+ chp so I've got some time to save up.

But I digress, apologizes to Carlos for the hijack

.

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:27 pm

I am not planning on autocrossing my 4eat SS - I do plan on a high stall Torque Converter & modded V-body, but the SS will be for bracket drag racing.

I made this post because talking to Nate (n2x4) I could not give a solid answer as to which turbo was better for auto-x a TD05 or TD04, all I could do was give pros & cons of each on my SS (which has a different motor/tranny than his).

I figured quick response would be key, but Dan was/is right RPMS should not drop the TD05 out of boost + it will have more power than the TD04 so I was wrong on thinking the TD04 was a better turbo for this application just because it spooled quicker...

reign16 · Post by **reign16** » Thu Jan 29, 2009 5:35 pm

how large this kind of turbo Auto-X Turbo for a SS?, what is the meaning of SS, is this a car man, thank you for your answer....

___________________
Great thing to know about Busby SEO Test.

Dynamic Entry · Post by **Dynamic Entry** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:30 am

Sport Sedan man

you have a lot of reading and searching to do

please do that, check out the What You Need to Know area

GodSquadMandrake · Post by **GodSquadMandrake** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:50 pm

Yeah I think those are both good choices but I would go with the 16G myself because it spools up plenty fast and has more top end. It's a trade that's well worth it IMO.

BXSS · Post by **BXSS** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:45 pm

Since Nate has the entire old school Subaru compatible IHI turbo line would one of those be better than a TD04 or TD05?

I'd think the VF8 should be good as folks say it is almost the size of a 16G.

n2x4 · Post by **n2x4** » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:08 pm

I love my VF8, I've been running it on my 91, and it's been great. I don't have anything larger to compare it to though.

I'll give the 10 a shot for starters since I have it.
I'd love to find a compressor map and compare it to a TD04.

legacycentral bbs

A forum for 89-94 BC-BF(BJ) Legacy Owners and Fans

Auto-X Turbo for a SS?

Auto-X Turbo for a SS?