NE1 make the switch to R-134?

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 6:53 pm

It's getting warmer out nowadays and I've completely forgot that the A/C needs to be recharged. However, I'm thinking that this car uses R-12 refrigerant, which you can't find anymore. Has anyone done the switch to R-134? I hear there are kits available for this. Does anyone have experience with this procedure?

IggDawg · Post by **IggDawg** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:00 pm

thankfully my R12 is holding up nicely. it's been pretty warm here for a few of the days, and it still blows ice cold

. Unfortunately I hear the R-134 kills the bag in the drier canister. I dunno what can be done about this. I guess it'll work fine for a while and it'll flake out after some time. something to do with the particles of R-134 being smaller than R-12 particles. I dunno the details. good question for a tech.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:25 pm

You can get retrofit kits from Subaru; I've had many people recommend getting OEM retrofit kits rather than using the "universal" ones sold at the local auto parts store (since they don't replace the receiver/dryer which is bad for the reasons IggDawg gives). If you have the tools and trust yourself with it, it can't be too bad to retrofit yourself; you'll just need to get any existing refrigerant discharged by a certified shop.

The kit for my car was part number G3110AS120: "92-93 Leg Cal A/C Retro Kit." I think I paid around $70 for it, and it came with:
73019AA100 PAG Oil
73035AA100 Pressure relief valve
73039AA010x4 O-ring
73058AA100 Adapter valve, low pressure
73058AA110 Adapter valve, high pressure
73411FA100 Receiver/dryer
SOA635054 R-134a retrofit label

I haven't tried using it yet; my A/C compressor died in October and rather than fix it then I just pulled all the A/C relays. Now I'm not sure if I'll fix and retrofit it or just pull the whole air conditioning system.

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 7:31 pm

vrg3, do you remember where you got the kit for $70? I looked up the part number at subaruparts.com and they've got it listed for $187.57!!

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:00 pm

I know a guy in florida that retrofitted his r12 system on his 93 wagon. He did pretty much everything vrg3 mentioned.....I've got the specifics in an email.

Other thing he mentioned is to fill the system only to 80% of the recommend pressure that the r12 system gives. The reason being is because the r134a stuff operates at higher pressures.

I've been contemplating switching. I had my system recharged last year with r12 for 50 bucks. It doesn't seem as cold now.......plus I would like to remove the condenser and clean it out......when I first turn on the vents in the morning after running the A/C.....it just stinks....so I'm pretty sure I got lots of fun stuff growin in there.

mikec · Post by **mikec** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:02 pm

I would also like to know where this kit came from. I don't have a belt or tensioner pulley right now, but with the coming warm weather, I also want to look into getting the a/c working well.

Argh! So much stuff to do, so little money to do it with!

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 8:40 pm

Can you still get an R-12 recharge?

Post by **Legacy777** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:49 pm

Yeah.....should be able to.....it's expensive though. 1lb of r12 cost me about $50 last year

petridish38 · Post by **petridish38** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:54 pm

when i bought my car the AC did not work... so that summer, i got an estimate...$1300!!!!

But, for some reason, my mom decided to pay for it even though i told her it was too much and not to worry about it

!!! the compressor was $491!!! and a new evaporator for $236, new drier, expansion valve..... and they threw in the retrofit kit for $31.80......so labor was $335.50 and parts were $889.38 geez!! add tax and disposal fees and the total comes to $1308.97.....that crap should last forever now!! and if it doesn't..i will be very mad.... but hey....i didnt pay for it!
My system doesn't work as well with the R-134a though...especially with these florida summers... i have to keep it on max AC and number 3 or 4 all the time...the only time it gets really cold (around 32 degrees) is on the highway when there is enough air flowing over the condensor. but its better than nothing.

and Legacy777, do you mean the evaporator and not the condenser? the vent air doesn't flow over the condenser....if you take the glove compartment out, you should be able to get to the "Fan control amp." as the Haynes manual calls it. im not sure what this does, but if u take it out, you can see the evaporator.....maybe you can spray some type of antibacterial spray in there or that stuff that u can buy at auto stores meant for taking the smell out of the AC system.

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:56 pm

A complete R-12 recharge will cost you around $100; it's hardly worth it even if you do have to pay $200 for a retrofit, since in the future it'll only get more and more expensive, while R-134a recharges are like $10.

If you do a retrofit, make sure it's done right. There are a lot of people who think R-134a is terrible because they had a shop retrofit their R-12 system to R-134a and they didn't do a good job. It's true that R-134a isn't quite as efficient a refrigerant as R-12, but the difference should be barely perceptible if at all.

I got this kit from an eBay auction; I remember having to look for a long time before finding one, though.

Supposedly you can recharge an R-12 system with propane, but I'm not planning on trying that anytime soon.

Josh, if you could post those specifics I'm sure we'd all appreciate it, provided the guy wouldn't mind.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 12:55 am

Yeah....r12a is actually propane........which is how it's marketed.....no thanks.....I'll pass on the flame thrower A/C system.

I'll search back through my emails and find the info.

91White-T · Post by **91White-T** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 3:33 am

Legacy777 wrote: flame thrower A/C system.

hmmm... now THAT would be something to have

boostjunkie · Post by **boostjunkie** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 2:08 pm

91White-T wrote:
Legacy777 wrote: flame thrower A/C system.
hmmm... now THAT would be something to have

Good theft deterrent

STi_GUY · Post by **STi_GUY** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 2:49 pm

http://www.gotflames.net/

Try this

.

Post by **Legacy777** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 4:32 pm

Well....I looked through my email....apparently some of the more technical discussions I had were on the phone with him.

Here's a brief excerpt

Hey Josh,

My compressor does the same, I think it might be the clutch bearing not sure though. I converted mine to 134A last year. I think it was less than a 100 dollars, $45 for new filter drier, $20 for 134a, $16 for flush solution and $12 for esther oil.

Took the whole thing apart flushed everything then put in new oil in compressor and drier then pulled a vacuum and charged with 134A and it gets really cold.

BTW taking the evaporator case out didn't come easy until I took all the hoses off. Hard to remember but I don't think it would come out until I took it apart. The evaporator has a styrofoam case around it.

I didn't replace the fittings to convert to 134A. I bought a converter that just screws onto the valve that pierces the freon can. I did this so I didn't have to buy a new set of gauges. I think it cost $12 at local refrigeration whse.

I sprayed some silicone spray on the clutch while running seemed to make it a little quieter.

Where I used to work the semi mechanics in the truck shop would dump 134a right on top of the R-12 if they thought the compressor was on its way out. But I wouldn't try it unless you knew the compressor was going bad. The compressors we have or a dealer only item and very expensive. You can only use the compressor from a 90 or 91 only. The junkyard ones go for about 100.00. The new from the dealer I think was around 500.

Call me if you have any questions.

Sincerely,

Hal Harrison

I'll try and give him an email or call and get the specifics on things.

IggDawg · Post by **IggDawg** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 9:07 pm

I actually really like my R-12 system. it feels so much colder than the brand new R-134 system in my '02 Impreza. unless something harms my system I think I'll keep it.

eastbaysubaru · Post by **eastbaysubaru** » Fri Mar 28, 2003 11:07 pm

Yeah, my system is ICY cold. Much better than my fiancee's '00 RS. She even complains about it whenever it's hot and we're in her car.

-Brian

vrg3 · Post by **vrg3** » Sat Mar 29, 2003 1:09 am

My '97 Impreza's air conditioning was impossibly cold. I had to periodically switch the air conditioning between the low and off positions a lot of the time, even when it was hot.

I think it's true that R-12 is a better refrigerant than R-134a, but I think there are so many other variables that come into play that it's far from being a determining factor.

Fernely · Post by **Fernely** » Wed Apr 02, 2003 4:01 pm

I switched mine a few weeks ago. The cost was $220 and the shop did a great job. the 134 feels every bit as cold to me and I'm in Florida.

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:51 pm

I found this while researching info for the A/C system swap. I'm still gathering info.....so we'll see.

http://www.endwrench.com/pdf/heat/ACRet ... nfoS98.pdf

Post by **Legacy777** » Wed Apr 30, 2003 7:41 pm

more misc hvac stuff

http://www.endwrench.com/archive/sysheat.html

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NE1 make the switch to R-134?

NE1 make the switch to R-134?

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